Stockfish - Initial position, MultiPV Mode=20, Depth=50

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fastgm
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:57 pm

Stockfish - Initial position, MultiPV Mode=20, Depth=50

Post by fastgm »

Stockfish 220617 64 POPCNT - Initial position, MultiPV Mode=20, Depth=50

Dual Intel Xeon E5-2670, 16 Cores, 16 GB Hash, HT off
Arena output

Stockfish 220617 64 POPCNT:

Code: Select all

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	+0,17	1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 c6 3.c4 g6 4.cxd5 cxd5 5.d4 Bg7 6.Bg2 e6 7.0-0 Ne7 8.b3 0-0 9.Qd2 Nbc6 10.Ba3 Qd7 11.Rc1 b6 12.e3 Bb7 13.Nc3 Rfc8 14.Rc2 Nf5 15.Rac1 h5 16.Bh3 a5 17.Na4 Qd8 18.Bxf5 exf5 19.h3 Bf6 20.Kg2 Bg7 21.h4 Bf6 22.Rc3 Ne7 23.Rxc8 Nxc8 24.Nc3 Nd6 25.Bxd6 Qxd6 26.Nb5 Qd7

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	+0,08	1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 c5 4.exd5 Qxd5 5.Ngf3 cxd4 6.Bc4 Qd6 7.0-0 Nf6 8.Nb3 Nc6 9.Nbxd4 Nxd4 10.Nxd4 a6 11.Re1 Qc7 12.Bb3 Bd6 13.g3 0-0 14.Bg5 Qd8 15.c3 h6 16.Bxf6 Qxf6 17.Qf3 Qxf3 18.Nxf3 Rd8 19.Rad1 b5 20.Ne5 Bc7 21.Rxd8+ Bxd8 22.Rd1 Bc7 23.Bc2 Bb7 24.Rd7 Bxe5 25.Rxb7 Rd8 26.a4 Rd2 27.axb5 axb5

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	+0,06	1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 e6 4.Nbd2 Be7 5.Bd3 c5 6.b3 Nc6 7.Bb2 b6 8.0-0 Bb7 9.a3 Qc7 10.Rc1 cxd4 11.exd4 Qf4 12.g3 Qh6 13.Kg2 0-0 14.Rh1 Rac8 15.Qe2 g6 16.Rce1 Qg7 17.h3 Rfd8 18.c3 Bd6 19.a4 Rc7 20.b4 h6 21.Ne5 Ne7 22.b5 Nf5 23.Ndf3 Ne4 24.c4 Bb4 25.cxd5 exd5

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	 0,00	1.c4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e6 6.e3 Bb4 7.Be2 Ne4 8.Bd2 Nxc3 9.Bxc3 Bxc3+ 10.bxc3 0-0 11.0-0 Na5 12.Nb3 b6 13.Nxa5 bxa5 14.Rb1 Qc7 15.Bf3 Rb8 16.Rxb8 Qxb8 17.Qd4 Qb2 18.a4 Bb7 19.Qxd7 Bxf3 20.gxf3 Qe2 21.Qc6 Qd3 22.Kg2 Qg6+ 23.Kh3 Qd3 24.Kg2

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	 0,00	1.b3 d5 2.Nf3 Bf5 3.Bb2 e6 4.d3 h6 5.g3 c6 6.Nbd2 Nf6 7.Bg2 Be7 8.0-0 0-0 9.Re1 Nbd7 10.h3 Bg6 11.e4 dxe4 12.dxe4 Qc7 13.Qe2 a5 14.a3 Rfd8 15.Nh4 Bh7 16.Nhf3 

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	 0,00	1.g3 c5 2.e4 d5 3.exd5 Qxd5 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.d3 Nd4 6.Bg2 Bh3 7.Bxh3 Nxf3+ 8.Kf1 Nd2+ 9.Kg1 Nf3+ 10.Kf1

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	 0,00	1.e3 d5 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nf3 e6 4.b3 b6 5.c4 Bd6 6.Ba3 dxc4 7.Bxd6 cxd6 8.bxc4 Nc6 9.Be2 Qd7 10.0-0 0-0 11.Nfd2 Ba6 12.Nb3 Rab8 13.N1d2 Rfc8 14.h3 h6 15.Re1 Bb7 16.Qb1 Ne7 17.a4 a5 18.Rc1 Bc6 19.Qa2 Bb7 20.Qb1

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	 0,00	1.c3 Nf6 2.d4 d5 3.Bg5 c5 4.e3 e6 5.Nf3 Nbd7 6.Bf4 Nh5 7.Be5 Nhf6 8.Bf4

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	 0,00	1.h3 e5 2.e3 d5 3.d4 Nc6 4.dxe5 Nxe5 5.Nf3 Nxf3+ 6.Qxf3 Nf6 7.Bd3 c6 8.0-0 Bd6 9.Nc3 Bc7 10.Re1 Qd6 11.Qf4 Qe7 12.Qh4 Qd6 13.Qf4

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	 0,00	1.d3 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.dxe4 Qxd1+ 4.Kxd1 e5 5.Nd2 f6 6.f3 Nh6 7.a4 Nf7 8.Nh3 Nd6 9.b3 Be6 10.Nf2 Nc6 11.c3 0-0-0 12.Kc2 Na5 13.Be2 h5 14.Nd3 b6 15.b4 Nc6 16.Rd1 a5 17.b5 Nb8 18.Nb2 Nd7 19.Ndc4 Nb7 20.Ne3 Nd6 21.Nec4

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	 0,00	1.a3 e5 2.c4 g6 3.b4 Nf6 4.e3 Bg7 5.Bb2 Qe7 6.Nc3 0-0 7.Be2 a5 8.b5 d6 9.Nf3 e4 10.Nd4 Nbd7 11.0-0 Nc5 12.Qc2 Bd7 13.a4 c6 14.Nb3 Bf5 15.Nd4 Bd7

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	 0,00	1.b4 e5 2.Bb2 Bxb4 3.Bxe5 Nf6 4.Nf3 0-0 5.e3 d5 6.c4 c5 7.cxd5 Nxd5 8.Qc2 Nc6 9.Bb2 g6 10.Be2 Bf5 11.Qb3 Be6 12.Qc2 Qe7 13.0-0 Rad8 14.a3 Bf5 15.Qb3 Ba5 16.Nc3 Nxc3 17.Bxc3 Be4 18.Bb2 Bd5 19.Qa4 Bc7 20.Rac1 Na5 21.Bc3 Nc6 22.Bb2

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	 0,00	1.f4 b6 2.b3 Nf6 3.Bb2 c5 4.g3 Bb7 5.Nf3 d5 6.Bg2 e6 7.e3 g6 8.0-0 Nc6 9.d3 Bg7 10.c4 Rc8 11.Qe2 0-0 12.Ne5 h5 13.Na3 Nxe5 14.Bxe5 Ne8 15.Bxg7 Kxg7 16.cxd5 Bxd5 17.e4 Bc6 18.Qb2+ Nf6 19.Nc4 h4 20.gxh4 Rh8 21.Ne5 Rxh4 22.f5 exf5 23.Nxc6 Rxc6 24.exf5 Rc7 25.fxg6 Qd4+ 26.Qxd4 Rxd4 27.gxf7 Rxf7 28.Rf2 Rxd3

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	-0,14	1.Nc3 d5 2.d4 Nf6 3.Bf4 a6 4.e3 e6 5.Nf3 b5 6.Be2 c5 7.0-0 Bb7 8.Nb1 Nbd7 9.c3 Nb6 10.Nbd2 c4 11.b3 Ba3 12.Qc2 0-0 13.Ne5 Rc8 14.Rfb1 Nfd7 15.Rd1 Nxe5 16.Bxe5 Be7 17.Rdc1 Bc6 18.Bg3 Qd7 19.h3 Rfd8 20.bxc4 dxc4 21.e4 Bd6 22.Bxd6 Qxd6 23.Re1 h6 24.e5 Qc7 25.Rab1 Qb7

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	-0,16	1.a4 Nf6 2.d4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.e3 Qc7 6.Nbd2 d5 7.Bb5 Be7 8.0-0 0-0 9.b3 b6 10.Ba3 Bb7 11.Qb1 a5 12.Bb2 Rad8 13.h3 Ne4 14.Qe1 f5 15.Qe2 Bd6 16.Rad1 Na7 17.Bd3 Qe7 18.Rfe1 Nc6 19.Bb5 Bc7 20.Kh1 Qf7 21.Kg1 Qg6 22.Nh4 Qh6 23.Nhf3 g5 24.Bxc6 Bxc6 25.Nxe4 dxe4 26.Ne5 Bd5

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	-0,19	1.h4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3 d5 4.Bg2 c5 5.0-0 Be7 6.b3 0-0 7.e3 Nc6 8.d4 cxd4 9.exd4 b5 10.Re1 Bb7 11.c3 b4 12.c4 dxc4 13.bxc4 Na5 14.c5 Bd5 15.Nbd2 Nc6 16.Bb2 a5 17.a3 Qc7 18.axb4 axb4 19.Bf1 Rxa1 20.Qxa1 Qb7 21.Qb1 Rb8 22.Bc4 Qd7 23.Qd3 Ra8 24.Qe2 h6 25.Ne5 Qb7 26.Nxf7 Bxc4 27.Qxc4 Kxf7

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	-0,35	1.Na3 e5 2.e3 d5 3.d4 Nd7 4.Nb1 c6 5.c4 Ngf6 6.cxd5 Nxd5 7.Ne2 exd4 8.Nxd4 N7f6 9.Be2 Bd6 10.Nc3 0-0 11.Nxd5 Nxd5 12.0-0 Bc7 13.Qc2 Qd6 14.g3 Bh3 15.Rd1 Bb6 16.e4 Nf6 17.Bf4 Qe7 18.Bf3 Rad8 19.Nf5 Qe6 20.Ne3 Bg4 21.Nxg4 Nxg4 22.Rf1 h6 23.Qb3 Qxb3 24.axb3 Nf6 25.Be5 Rd3 26.Kg2 Re8 27.Bxf6 gxf6

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	-0,36	1.Nh3 d5 2.d4 Nf6 3.Ng5 c5 4.e3 Nc6 5.Nf3 g6 6.Be2 Bg7 7.0-0 0-0 8.c3 b6 9.b3 Bb7 10.Nbd2 Qd6 11.Qc2 Rac8 12.Ba3 e5 13.dxe5 Nxe5 14.Nxe5 Qxe5 15.Bb2 Rfe8 16.Rfe1 Nd7 17.Rad1 Rcd8 18.h3 a6 19.Nf3 Qe7 20.c4 Bxb2 21.Qxb2 Qf6 22.Qc2 dxc4 23.bxc4 Bc6 24.Rd2 Ne5 25.Nxe5 Qxe5 26.Red1 Rxd2 27.Qxd2

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	-0,41	1.f3 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.d4 exd4 4.Qxd4 Nc6 5.Qf2 d5 6.e4 Bb4 7.Bd2 Bxc3 8.Bxc3 dxe4 9.Qc5 Be6 10.Ne2 Qd5 11.Qxd5 Nxd5 12.Bxg7 Rg8 13.Bh6 0-0-0 14.0-0-0 Ncb4 15.Nc3 Rg6 16.Nxd5 Bxd5 17.Bd2 exf3 18.gxf3 Bxf3 19.Bh3+ Bg4 20.Bxb4 Bxh3 21.Rxd8+ Kxd8 22.Rd1+ Kc8 23.Rd2 Be6 24.b3 b6 25.Bc3 Kb7 26.Be5 Rh6 27.c4 Rh5 28.Bg3 Kc6

 50/80	200:44:26	9.890.822.131k	18.586k	-0,92	1.g4 d5 2.e3 e5 3.a3 Nc6 4.d3 g6 5.Nd2 Bg7 6.h4 h6 7.b4 d4 8.Ne4 dxe3 9.Bxe3 a5 10.bxa5 Rxa5 11.Bd2 Ra8 12.Bg2 Nge7 13.g5 h5 14.Ne2 0-0 15.Qb1 Nf5 16.N2g3 Nfd4 17.0-0 Bg4 18.f3 Be6 19.Rf2 b6 20.Qb2 Qe7 21.Qc1 Rfd8 22.Be3 Kh8 23.f4 Bg4 24.Nf6 Bxf6 25.Bxd4 Nxd4 26.Bxa8
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Henk
Posts: 7218
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 10:31 am

Re: Stockfish - Initial position, MultiPV Mode=20, Depth=50

Post by Henk »

Nc3 and f3 are underestimated.
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Nay Lin Tun
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:34 am

Re: Stockfish - Initial position, MultiPV Mode=20, Depth=50

Post by Nay Lin Tun »

Very interesting. Surprisingly, the two most popular opening moves both e4 and d4 are evaluated as 0.08+ and 0.06+ only. Nf3 scores as the best opening move with eval 0.17, while g4 is considered as the worst opening and it might possibly leady to forced lose for white with -0.92 evaluation.
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kranium
Posts: 2129
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 10:43 am

Re: Stockfish - Initial position, MultiPV Mode=20, Depth=50

Post by kranium »

Interesting...if you subtract bonus for side-to-move (Tempo = 20)...
1. Nf3 score drops to -0.03

Does this mean that SF sees chess as a draw?, ie w/ little or no advantage for either side after a very deep search.
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jorose
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:21 pm
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Full name: Jonathan Rosenthal

Re: Stockfish - Initial position, MultiPV Mode=20, Depth=50

Post by jorose »

kranium wrote:Interesting...if you subtract bonus for side-to-move (Tempo = 20)...
1. Nf3 score drops to -0.03
Isn't this completely expected? Being the side to move is the exact advantage white has in the starting position so assuming the tempo bonus is tuned correctly you would expect an advantage in the starting position close to the tempo bonus.

Further in the starting position neither side has revealed any information about their plans, since white is the first player to move he is at an inherent information disadvantage relative to his opponent, so I would even expect the advantage to be slightly less than the tempo bonus.

I don't think this means SF sees chess as a draw, I think SF sees the position as very slightly better for white at depth 50 according to this...
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kranium
Posts: 2129
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 10:43 am

Re: Stockfish - Initial position, MultiPV Mode=20, Depth=50

Post by kranium »

Before move 1: +0.20 for white
Depth 50: +0.17 for white

SF is holding onto this 'tempo' bonus, but that's it...there's no other improvement of position.
If chess (in theory) is a win for white, I would expect white score to slowly increase.
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fastgm
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:57 pm

Re: Stockfish - Initial position, MultiPV Mode=20, Depth=50

Post by fastgm »

Complete Arena output:

http://www.fastgm.de/schach/MultiPV20-50.txt
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duncan
Posts: 12038
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:50 pm

Re: Stockfish - Initial position, MultiPV Mode=20, Depth=50

Post by duncan »

kranium wrote:Before move 1: +0.20 for white
Depth 50: +0.17 for white

SF is holding onto this 'tempo' bonus, but that's it...there's no other improvement of position.
If chess (in theory) is a win for white, I would expect white score to slowly increase.
if it is a win for white in 70 moves, you would not expect a white score to slowly increase so early.
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Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Stockfish - Initial position, MultiPV Mode=20, Depth=50

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

it does not make sense to waste one's time with an engine evaluating 1.c4, 1.b3, 1.c3 and 1.h3 as all equal.

typical output by an engine in its infancy.

it might be the case that 1.c4 is winning altogether, at least in some 90% of lines.
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Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 pm

Re: Stockfish - Initial position, MultiPV Mode=20, Depth=50

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

kranium wrote:Before move 1: +0.20 for white
Depth 50: +0.17 for white

SF is holding onto this 'tempo' bonus, but that's it...there's no other improvement of position.
If chess (in theory) is a win for white, I would expect white score to slowly increase.
this is so imperfect: so many moves pruned, so many nodes evaluated incorrectly.

for correctly assessing the start position, as there are no forced lines, one needs at least an evaluation close to perfection, and SF eval is admittedly very poor.

would not make very much sense to repeat the same exercise with SF before 2045.
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