In case you missed it: SSDF, shiny new hardware...

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Dann Corbit, Harvey Williamson

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
corres
Posts: 3657
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

Re: In case you missed it: SSDF, shiny new hardware...

Post by corres » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:01 am

[quote="Lyudmil Tsvetkov"]

don't see there Houdini either.

[/quote]

From SSDF lists are absent the whole Ippo family.
The lists reflect the time when was run the combat against "clones".
Because marking a chess engine to be clone is very subjective thing
the lists are subjective, too.

corres
Posts: 3657
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

Re: In case you missed it: SSDF, shiny new hardware...

Post by corres » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:37 am

[quote="Rebel"]

[quote="Lyudmil Tsvetkov"]
opening books distort a fair competition.
[/quote]

Not at all, an opening book is an essential part of a chess program, in there the programmer decides what suits his program best.

[/quote]


There are competitions for chess engines and there are other competitions for opening books.
A good opening book enhances Elo of an engine with 50 - 100 Elo.
Meanwhile Elo difference between top engines are some tens Elo.
So if you want a correct line about Elo of the participants you ought to use the same opening book for all engines.
Naturally every person who arrange a competition can determine the rules of it.
But these rules should be emphasized that SSDF in this form is a contest between engines + its book COMBOS and not a engine-engine competition.

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: In case you missed it: SSDF, shiny new hardware...

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:07 pm

corres wrote:
Rebel wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: opening books distort a fair competition.
Not at all, an opening book is an essential part of a chess program, in there the programmer decides what suits his program best.

There are competitions for chess engines and there are other competitions for opening books.
A good opening book enhances Elo of an engine with 50 - 100 Elo.
Meanwhile Elo difference between top engines are some tens Elo.
So if you want a correct line about Elo of the participants you ought to use the same opening book for all engines.
Naturally every person who arrange a competition can determine the rules of it.
But these rules should be emphasized that SSDF in this form is a contest between engines + its book COMBOS and not a engine-engine competition.
everyone is interested in how strong an engine is, how many elos it has gained since last update, how suitable it is for analysis of a set of positions, what specific moves it will make.

what is the use of an engine's custom book?

can it be helpful in:

- analysing a position
- making good moves in a random situation?

btw., engines do tend to regularly up their strength, while their books more or less remain the same.

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: In case you missed it: SSDF, shiny new hardware...

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:14 pm

matejst wrote:
and I am happy about the Mephisto Gideon(or was it Escalibur?)
I am glad you like this program.

Joking aside, sometimes one tries to find an engine with a humanlike style, a chess program whose moves he is able to understand, and that's what I get with Wasp and ProDeo, Zappa or some earlier versions of Komodo.

And I feel that this obsession with engine "strength" is not sane, and that the quality of engines deteriorated in a way.
that is how I used to think on occasions in the past, when some Phalanx moves really appealed to me.

but no more, comparing them to SF moves, they are simply no good.

so, this is just an illusory personal impression.

engines getting stronger and stronger, but quality deteriorated: I somehow am unable to grasp this.

corres
Posts: 3657
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

Re: In case you missed it: SSDF, shiny new hardware...

Post by corres » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:10 pm

Opening book was an important additional part of the old engines.
Without this they played very irregularly and more weaker than a good chess player.
Nowadays opening book specialized for a certain engine is used mainly for engine-engine matches.
For analysis purpose a huge and well-selected database is suitable than a specialized engine book.

corres
Posts: 3657
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

Re: In case you missed it: SSDF, shiny new hardware...

Post by corres » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:23 pm

I agree.
The new SSDF list is a list for new Komodo...

Post Reply