Position analysis

[kgburcham]

[D] q4bk1/pb4p1/1p2pp2/3n3p/2NP4/1P3BP1/PB3P1P/R1R3K1 b - -


Engine: Deep Shredder 13 x64 (8192 MB)
by Stefan Meyer-Kahlen
engine now running on 8 thread(s)

35/54 1:55 -0.43++ 27...Nf4 (1.750.107.203) 15093
35/54 1:59 -0.53++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Ba3 Bxa3 32.Nxa3 g5 33.Rc8+ Kf7 34.Rc7+ (1.807.635.377) 15155
35/54 2:01 -0.64++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Ba3 Bxa3 32.Nxa3 g5 33.Rc8+ Kf7 34.Rc4 Qxf2 35.Rh1 g4+ 36.Kh4 Qf5 37.Rc7+ (1.847.032.809) 15208
35/59 2:03 -0.79++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Ba3 Bxa3 32.Nxa3 g5 33.Rc8+ Kf7 34.Rc7+ (1.891.783.111) 15260
35/60 2:07 -0.99++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Ba3 Bxa3 32.Nxa3 g5 33.Rc8+ Kf7 34.Nc4 (1.962.932.706) 15337
35/60 2:15 -1.26++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Ba3 Bxa3 32.Nxa3 g5 33.Rc8+ Kf7 34.Rc7+ (2.096.011.269) 15438
35/74 2:29 -1.62++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Ba3 Bxa3 32.Nxa3 g5 33.Rc8+ Kf7 34.Rc7+ (2.337.051.784) 15643
35/74 2:53 -2.09++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Ba3 Bxa3 32.Nxa3 g5 33.Rc8+ Kf7 34.Rc7+ (2.764.151.063) 15888
35/74 2:55 -2.09 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Ba3 bxc4 33.Bxf8 Kxf8 34.bxc4 g5 35.Raf1 g4+ 36.Kh4 Qf5 37.f4 gxf3 38.g4 Qf4 39.h3 Ke7 40.a3 Kd7 (2.791.190.853) 15913
36/74 3:20 -2.16++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Ba3 bxc4 33.Bxf8 Kxf8 34.bxc4 g5 35.Raf1 g4+ 36.Kh4 Qe4 37.c5 Qxd4 38.f4 gxf3+ 39.g4 Qf4 40.Kh3 h4 (3.250.971.097) 16175
36/74 3:38 -2.23++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Ba3 bxc4 33.Bxf8 Kxf8 34.bxc4 g5 35.Raf1 g4+ 36.Kh4 Qe4 37.c5 Qxd4 38.f4 gxf3+ 39.g4 Qf4 40.h3 e5 (3.567.823.993) 16308
36/74 3:54 -2.24 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Nd2 Qxf2 33.Raf1 Qxd2 34.Rg2 Qe3 35.Rgf2 Bd6 36.Kg2 Qe4+ 37.Rf3 h4 38.gxh4 Qxh4 39.h3 Qg5+ 40.Kh1 Qd2 (3.856.326.212) 16411
37/74 4:17 -2.31++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rf1 g5 32.Ne3 g4+ 33.Kh4 Qe4 34.Bc1 Qg6 35.Nc2 (4.240.646.244) 16492
37/74 4:24 -2.24-- 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Nd2 Qxf2 33.Raf1 Qxd2 34.Rg2 Qe3 35.Rgf2 Bd6 36.Kg2 Qe4+ 37.Rf3 h4 38.gxh4 Qxh4 39.h3 Qg5+ 40.Kh1 Qd2 (4.369.374.612) 16528
37/74 4:24 -2.24 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Nd2 Qxf2 33.Raf1 Qxd2 34.Rg2 Qe3 35.Rgf2 Bd6 36.Kg2 Qe4+ 37.Rf3 h4 38.gxh4 Qxh4 39.h3 Qg5+ 40.Kh1 Qd2 (4.376.390.563) 16530
38/74 4:46 -2.31++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Nd2 Qxf2 33.Raf1 Qxd2 34.Rg2 Qe3 35.Rgf2 Bd6 36.Kg2 Qe4+ 37.Rf3 h4 38.gxh4 Qxh4 39.h3 Qg5+ 40.Kh1 Qd2 (4.767.008.869) 16618
38/74 5:15 -2.38++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Nd2 Qxf2 33.Raf1 Qxd2 34.Rg2 Qe3 35.Rgf2 Bd6 36.Kg2 Qe4+ 37.Rf3 h4 38.gxh4 Qxh4 39.h3 Qg5+ 40.Kh1 Qd2 (5.275.036.132) 16709
38/74 5:56 -2.49++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Nd2 Qxf2 33.Raf1 Qxd2 34.Rg2 Qg5 35.Rgf2 Qd5 36.Re2 Bd6 37.Ref2 Qe4 38.Bc3 g5 39.d5 f5 40.Re1 Qxd5 (5.966.183.870) 16716
38/74 6:57 -2.64++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Nd2 Qxf2 33.Raf1 Qxd2 34.Rg2 Qe3 35.Rgf2 Qe4 36.Rc1 g5 37.Rc8 Kf7 38.Rc7+ Kg6 39.d5 g4+ 40.Kh4 f5 (6.911.099.734) 16573
38/77 9:06 -2.84++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Nd2 Qxf2 33.Raf1 Qxd2 34.Rg2 Qe3 35.Rgf2 Qe4 36.Rc1 g5 37.Rc8 Kf7 38.Rc7+ Kg6 39.d5 g4+ 40.Kh4 f5 (8.959.334.159) 16402
38/85 12:54 -3.11++ 27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Nd2 Qxf2 33.Raf1 Qxd2 34.Rg2 Qe3 35.Rgf2 Qe4 36.Rc1 g5 37.Rc8 Kf7 38.Rc7+ Kg6 39.d5 g4+ 40.Kh4 f5 (12.791.291.282) 16518

[MikeB]

Hello,

...

q4bk1/pb4p1/1p2pp2/3n3p/2NP4/1P3BP1/PB3P1P/R1R3K1 b - - 0 27

[Event "S-Open/7-pr/90"]
[Site "ICCF"]
[Date "2017.01.31"]
[White "Fremmegaard, Jens Tore"]
[Black "Macurek, Miloslav"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "2185"]
[ECO "D30"]
[WhiteElo "1990"]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O Bd6 7.Nbd2 O-O 8.Re1 c5 9.Qc2 h6 10.b3 cxd4 11.exd4 b6 12.cxd5 Nxd5 13.Qc6 N7f6 14.Qxa8 Qc7 15.Bb2 Bd7 16.Qxf8+ Bxf8 17.Ne5 Bc8 18.Rec1 Qd8 19.Nc6 Qd6 20.Ne4 Nxe4 21.Bxe4 Bb7 22.Ne5 Qd8 23.Nc6 Qe8 24.Ne5 Qa8 25.g3 h5 26.Bf3 f6 27.Nc4 *
(Game continued: Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Ba3 bxc4 33.Bxf8 Kxf8 34.bxc4 g5 35.Rab1 Kf7 36.a4 Qxf2 37.Rh1 g4+ 38.Kh4 Qd2 39.Rb5 Qg2 40.Rb7+ Kg6 41.h3 Qxh1 42.Rg7+ Kxg7 43.Kxh5 Qxh3# 0-1)

I tried to use even the IDeA for the position (I am most probably using it incorrectly so if anybody from you have any experience with it and can give me an advice or forward me to a good source of information about the topic I would be very grateful) and I could not make it to solve it.

What do you think of it?
Thank you for any opinion or advice!

nice game - nice position, maybe we'll meet some day on ICCF

yet to be released dev-SF-McB v2.7

Code: Select all

dep	score	nodes	time	(not shown:  tbhits	knps	seldep)
 41	 -4.48 	13.6G	9:43.81	Nf4 Bxb7 Nh3+ Kg2 Qxb7+ f3 g5 Rc2 g4 Rf1 Ng5 Nd2 Bb4 Bc3 gxf3+ Nxf3 Qe4 Bxb4 Qxc2+ Rf2 Qe4 h4 Nxf3 Rxf3 f5 Be7 Qxd4 Bg5 Kf7 a4 Kg6 Kf1 Qd1+ Kf2 e5 Re3 e4 Kg2 Qd2+ Kg1 Kf7 Bf4 Qd4 Kf1 Qd1+ Kg2 Ke6 Bg5 Kd7 Kf2 Qc2+ Kf1 Qb1+ Ke2 Q 
 41	 -4.33?	13.2G	9:25.58	Nf4 Bxb7? 
 41	 -4.41?	12.8G	9:10.18	Nf4 Bxb7? 
 40	 -4.48 	11.8G	8:26.58	Nf4 Bxb7 Nh3+ Kg2 Qxb7+ f3 g5 Nd2 g4 Rc2 Ng5 Rf1 Bb4 Bc3 gxf3+ Nxf3 Qe4 Bxb4 Qxc2+ Rf2 Qe4 h4 Nxf3 Rxf3 f5 Be7 Qxd4 Bg5 Kf7 Rf2 Qe4+ Rf3 Kg6 a4 Qd4 Kf1 Qd1+ Kf2 e5 Re3 e4 Kg2 Qd2+ Kg1 Kf7 Bf4 Qb2 Kf1 Qc1+ Re1 Qc2 Re3 Ke6 Bg5 Qd 
 39	 -4.48 	10.4G	7:31.13	Nf4 Bxb7 Nh3+ Kg2 Qxb7+ f3 g5 Nd2 g4 Rc2 Ng5 Rf1 Bb4 Bc3 gxf3+ Nxf3 Qe4 Bxb4 Qxc2+ Rf2 Qe4 h4 Nxf3 Rxf3 f5 Be7 Qxd4 Bg5 Kf7 Rf2 Qe4+ Rf3 e5 a4 Ke6 Kf2 Qc2+ Kf1 Qb2 Re3 e4 Kg1 Qd4 Bf4 Kf7 Bg5 Qb2 Bf4 Qd2 Kf1 Qd1+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kg1 Qb 
 38	 -4.48 	9.94G	7:10.86	Nf4 Bxb7 Nh3+ Kg2 Qxb7+ f3 g5 Nd2 g4 Rc2 Ng5 Rf1 Bb4 Bc3 gxf3+ Nxf3 Qe4 Bxb4 Qxc2+ Rf2 Qe4 h4 Nxf3 Rxf3 f5 Be7 Qxd4 Bg5 Kf7 Rf2 Qe4+ Rf3 e5 a4 Ke6 Kf2 Qc2+ Kf1 Qb2 Re3 e4 Kg1 Qd4 Bf4 Kf7 Bg5 Qb2 Bf4 Qd2 Kf1 Qd1+ Kf2 Qc2+ Kg1 Ke 
 37	 -4.48 	9.61G	6:56.89	Nf4 Bxb7 Nh3+ Kg2 Qxb7+ f3 g5 Nd2 g4 Rc2 Ng5 Rf1 Bb4 Bc3 gxf3+ Nxf3 Qe4 Bxb4 Qxc2+ Rf2 Qe4 h4 Nxf3 Rxf3 f5 Be7 Qxd4 Bg5 Kf7 Rf2 Qe4+ Rf3 e5 a4 Ke6 Kf2 Qc2+ Kf1 Qb2 Re3 e4 Kg1 Qd4 Bf4 Kf7 Bg5 Qb2 Bf4 Qd2 Kf1 Qd1+ Kf2 Qc2+ Kg1 Ke 
 36	 -4.48 	9.58G	6:55.83	Nf4 Bxb7 Nh3+ Kg2 Qxb7+ f3 g5 Nd2 g4 Rc2 Ng5 Rf1 Bb4 Bc3 gxf3+ Nxf3 Qe4 Bxb4 Qxc2+ Rf2 Qe4 h4 Nxf3 Rxf3 f5 Be7 Qxd4 Bg5 Kf7 Rf2 Qe4+ Rf3 e5 a4 Ke6 Kf2 Qc2+ Kf1 Qb2 Re3 e4 Kg1 Qd4 Bf4 Kf7 Bg5 Qb2 Bf4 Qd2 Kf1 Qd1+ Kf2 Qc2+ Kg1 Qb 
 36	 -4.03!	8.23G	5:58.38	Nf4! 
 36	 -3.88?	7.43G	5:24.51	Nf4 Bxb7? 
 36	 -4.04?	7.35G	5:20.92	Nf4 Bxb7? 
 36	 -4.15?	7.33G	5:20.18	Nf4 Bxb7? 
 36	 -4.22?	7.29G	5:18.47	Nf4 Bxb7? 
 35	 -4.30 	7.27G	5:17.60	Nf4 Bxb7 Nh3+ Kg2 Qxb7+ d5 Ng5 Rf1 Qxd5+ f3 Qf5 Ba3 Bxa3 Nxa3 h4 gxh4 Qh3+ Kh1 Nxf3 Rf2 Nxh4 Nc2 Qd3 Raf1 Qd5+ Kg1 e5 Ne3 Qd4 Nc2 Qg4+ Kh1 Qe4+ Kg1 Kf7 Ne1 Qd4 Nc2 Qg4+ Kh1 Qe4+ Kg1 Ng6 Re1 Qg4+ Kf1 Qh3+ Kg1 Nf4 Re3 Qd7 Kf1 Qd5 
 35	 -4.25!	7.14G	5:11.80	Nf4! 
 35	 -4.09?	6.81G	4:57.55	Nf4 Bxb7? 
 35	 -4.16?	6.57G	4:47.44	Nf4 Bxb7? 
 34	 -4.24 	5.37G	3:55.60	Nf4 Bxb7 Nh3+ Kf1 Qxb7 Ke2 g5 Rf1 Qe4+ Ne3 g4 f3 gxf3+ Rxf3 Bh6 Bc3 f5 Bd2 f4 gxf4 Nxf4+ Rxf4 Bxf4 h4 Qxd4 Rc1 Bxe3 Bxe3 Qb2+ Kd3 Qxa2 Kc3 Qa5+ Kc2 Qf5+ Kd2 Qd5+ Kc3 Qe5+ Kd3 Kf7 Bg5 Kg6 Rc3 Qd5+ Kc2 Qe4+ Kb2 Qe5 Kc2 Qe2+ Kc1 e 
 33	 -3.97 	4.40G	3:13.76	Nf4 Bxb7 Nh3+ Kg2 Qxb7+ Kxh3 Qf3 d5 g5 Ne3 Qxf2 Bxf6 Qxf6 Kg2 Qe5 Kf2 exd5 Rab1 Bc5 Rxc5 bxc5 Re1 Qf6+ Kg1 Qd4 Kf1 Kf7 Re2 Kg6 Ng2 c4 bxc4 dxc4 Re6+ Kf7 Re2 c3 Ne3 Kg6 Ke1 Qe4 Kf2 
 32	 -3.85 	3.91G	2:52.80	Nf4 Bxb7 Nh3+ Kf1 Qxb7 Ke2 g5 Rf1 Qe4+ Ne3 g4 f3 gxf3+ Rxf3 Bh6 Bc3 f5 Raf1 Bg5 Bd2 f4 gxf4 Nxf4+ Rxf4 Bxf4 Rf2 Qxd4 Rg2+ Kh7 Nf1 Qe4+ Kf2 e5 Bxf4 exf4 Nd2 Qd5 Nf3 Qd1 Ne1 h4 Kf1 Qd5 h3 Qe4 Rg4 Qh1+ Ke2 Qxh3 Rxf4 Qg3 Rf3 Qe5+ K 
 32	 -3.75?	3.85G	2:50.02	Nf4 Bxb7? 
 32	 -3.88!	3.81G	2:48.60	Nf4! 
 32	 -3.72?	3.80G	2:48.09	Nf4 Bxb7? 
 32	 -3.80?	3.77G	2:46.81	Nf4 Bxb7? 
 31	 -3.87 	3.67G	2:42.66	Nf4 Bxb7 Nh3+ Kg2 Qxb7+ d5 Ng5 Rf1 Qxd5+ f3 Qf5 Ba3 Bxa3 Nxa3 Qh3+ Kh1 h4 gxh4 Nxf3 Rf2 Nxh4 Nc2 Qd3 Raf1 Qd5+ Kg1 e5 Ne3 Qd4 Nc2 Qg4+ Kh1 Qe4+ Kg1 Kf7 Ne1 Qd4 Nc2 Qg4+ Kh1 Qe4+ Kg1 f5 Ne1 Qd4 Nc2 Qg4+ Kh1 Qe4+ Kg1 f4 Ne1 Qd4 K 
 31	 -3.81!	3.63G	2:40.81	Nf4! 
 30	 -3.44 	3.46G	2:33.53	Nf4 Bxb7 Nh3+ Kf1 Qxb7 Rc2 Qf3 Re1 h4 Ba3 Bxa3 Nxa3 Qh1+ Ke2 Qxh2 gxh4 Qxf2+ Kd1 Qxh4 Rc8+ Kh7 Nc2 Qf4 Rc3 Nf2+ Ke2 Ne4 Re3 f5 Kd3 g5 R3e2 g4 Rxe4 fxe4+ Rxe4 Qf3+ Re3 Qf5+ Kc3 Kg7 Kb2 Kf6 
 30	 -3.29!	2.99G	2:13.19	Nf4! 
 30	 -2.75!	2.71G	2:01.20	Nf4! 
 30	 -2.33!	2.59G	1:55.54	Nf4! 
 30	 -2.02!	2.54G	1:53.67	Nf4! 
 30	 -1.78!	2.53G	1:53.11	Nf4! 
 30	 -1.60!	2.53G	1:53.09	Nf4! 
 29	 -1.43 	1.86G	1:23.31	h4 Bg4 f5 Bh3 hxg3 hxg3 Qd8 Rd1 Nb4 Bg2 Bxg2 Kxg2 f4 a3 Nd5 Rd3 Qg5 Rf3 Qf5 Rh1 g5 Rh5 Qg4 Rh3 Bg7 Ne5 Bxe5 dxe5 fxg3 Rhxg3 Nf4+ Kh2 Qh5+ Kg1 Ne2+ Kg2 
 29	 -1.28!	1.62G	1:12.61	h4! 
 29	 -1.18?	1.51G	1:07.87	h4 Nd2? 
 29	 -1.26?	1.46G	1:05.43	h4 Nd2? 
 28	 -1.33 	1.30G	0:58.14	h4 Nd2 Nb4 Rc3 hxg3 hxg3 Bxf3 Nxf3 Nd5 Rd3 Qe8 Rc1 Bb4 Rcd1 Qg6 Kf1 Bd6 a3 Qg4 Rc1 Qe4 Ne1 Kf7 b4 Qh1+ Ke2 Qh7 Rb3 Qe4+ Kd2 Qg6 Nf3 Qh5 
 27	 -1.22 	1.04G	0:46.35	h4 Nd2 Nb4 Rc3 hxg3 hxg3 Bxf3 Nxf3 Nd5 Rd3 Qe8 a3 Qg6 Ne1 Qg4 Rd2 Nf4 Kf1 Nh3 Rd3 Qf5 Rf3 Qd5 g4 Ng5 Re3 Bd6 Rc1 Bf4 Rc8+ Kf7 
 27	 -1.15!	918.7M	0:41.06	h4! 
 26	 -1.02 	823.0M	0:36.78	h4 Nd2 Nb4 Be2 Qe8 a3 Nd5 Bf3 hxg3 hxg3 Qg6 Re1 Qc2 Bc1 Qc3 Rb1 Bxa3 Bxa3 Qxd2 Bd6 Qd3 Be4 Qxd4 Rbd1 Qc3 b4 Qc6 Bf4 Kf7 Bb8 a5 bxa5 bxa5 Ba7 Qe8 
 26	 -0.72!	625.5M	0:28.01	h4! 
 26	 -0.54?	401.6M	0:17.92	Nb4 Be2? 
 26	 -0.76?	361.3M	0:16.13	Nb4 Be2? 
 26	 -0.92?	354.9M	0:15.84	Nb4 Be2? 
 26	 -1.02!	354.7M	0:15.83	Nb4! 
 26	 -0.91!	282.7M	0:12.62	Nb4! 
 25	 -0.80 	226.4M	0:10.11	Nb4 Be2 h4 Ne3 f5 Rc7 Bf3 Bc4 Qe4 Ba3 f4 Rc8 a5 Bxb4 axb4 Re8 Qxd4 Bxe6+ Kh7 Rf1 fxe3 Rxf8 hxg3 hxg3 Bc6 Bg8+ Kg6 Bc4 Qd2 Rc8 Bf3 Rf8 e2 Rxf3 

[peter]

yet to be released dev-SF-McB v2.7

Looking forward to it!

2.6 with Tactical 8 (about 10MV necessary to get solution into SF-dev- output quickly) was about 3 minutes at a single try with 24 threads here, at another one 10' and depth 29, seems that SMP- spreading is rather big as always with really difficult to find points for the engine.

Switching off nullmove instead of Tactical setting:

Code: Select all

q4bk1/pb4p1/1p2pp2/3n3p/2NP4/1P3BP1/PB3P1P/R1R3K1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by SF-McBrain 2.6 64 POPCNT:
...
27...Nb4 
  -/+  (-0.91 ++)   Depth: 27/44   00:01:13  1301MN
27...Nf4 
  -/+  (-1.20 ++)   Depth: 27/45   00:01:31  1633MN
...
27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kf1 Qxb7 30.Ke2 Qg2 31.Rf1 Qxh2 32.Bc1 h4 33.gxh4 b5 34.Nb2 Ng1+ 35.Kd3 Nf3 36.Be3 Qxh4 37.Kc2 Qe4+ 38.Nd3 Ba3 39.Rad1 a5 40.Kb1 e5 41.d5 Qxd5 42.Nb2 Qe4+ 43.Nd3 a4 44.Rh1 Qd5 45.bxa4 
  -+  (-3.29)   Depth: 28/46   00:01:48  1982MN
...
27...Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kf1 Qxb7 30.Rc3 Qh1+ 31.Ke2 Qxh2 32.Rf1 h4 33.gxh4 Nf4+ 34.Kd1 Qxh4 35.Nd2 Qh5+ 36.f3 Nd5 37.Rc4 Ne3+ 38.Ke2 Nxf1 39.Nxf1 Qg6 40.Nd2 Bd6 41.Bc1 Qg2+ 42.Kd1 Bf4 43.Rc8+ Kh7 44.Rc3 Qg1+ 45.Kc2 Qxd4 46.Rc4 Qe5 47.Kd1 Qf5 48.a3 
  -+  (-4.17)   Depth: 32/55   00:04:21  5071MN

Maybe a lucky try too

[Nordlandia]

Is this drawable for white?

Is it said that in active positions RBB equals RRN sometimes.

[d]6k1/pppb3p/3b1rp1/3Pqp2/2P1p2N/6P1/PP5P/R2Q1R1K w - - 0 18

Position originated from an casual ICC blitz game.

https://lichess.org/Q3xLBlZZ#34

[MikeGL]

Hello,

quite recently I encountered a position in my ICCF game where there were many ways to win, but there was a particular one that was brutaly crashing and much better than the other options. Oddly enough, all the engines I used for search were not able to find this move on their own but valued it very highly when the move was shown to them.

Without further adue, here is the position I speak of:

q4bk1/pb4p1/1p2pp2/3n3p/2NP4/1P3BP1/PB3P1P/R1R3K1 b - - 0 27

[Event "S-Open/7-pr/90"]
[Site "ICCF"]
[Date "2017.01.31"]
[White "Fremmegaard, Jens Tore"]
[Black "Macurek, Miloslav"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "2185"]
[ECO "D30"]
[WhiteElo "1990"]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O Bd6 7.Nbd2 O-O 8.Re1 c5 9.Qc2 h6 10.b3 cxd4 11.exd4 b6 12.cxd5 Nxd5 13.Qc6 N7f6 14.Qxa8 Qc7 15.Bb2 Bd7 16.Qxf8+ Bxf8 17.Ne5 Bc8 18.Rec1 Qd8 19.Nc6 Qd6 20.Ne4 Nxe4 21.Bxe4 Bb7 22.Ne5 Qd8 23.Nc6 Qe8 24.Ne5 Qa8 25.g3 h5 26.Bf3 f6 27.Nc4 *
(Game continued: Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Ba3 bxc4 33.Bxf8 Kxf8 34.bxc4 g5 35.Rab1 Kf7 36.a4 Qxf2 37.Rh1 g4+ 38.Kh4 Qd2 39.Rb5 Qg2 40.Rb7+ Kg6 41.h3 Qxh1 42.Rg7+ Kxg7 43.Kxh5 Qxh3# 0-1)

I tried to use even the IDeA for the position (I am most probably using it incorrectly so if anybody from you have any experience with it and can give me an advice or forward me to a good source of information about the topic I would be very grateful) and I could not make it to solve it.

What do you think of it?
Thank you for any opinion or advice!

Looks like Critter1.6 is also good on this position.
Critter1.6 on my old machine running 2 threads consider Nf4 after around
3mins 20 seconds on first try, then 3mins 48seconds on 2nd try.
Could be faster if it is 64bit version of critter on 64 bit Windows on
modern hardware.

.

[Rodolfo Leoni]

Hello,

quite recently I encountered a position in my ICCF game where there were many ways to win, but there was a particular one that was brutaly crashing and much better than the other options. Oddly enough, all the engines I used for search were not able to find this move on their own but valued it very highly when the move was shown to them.

Without further adue, here is the position I speak of:

q4bk1/pb4p1/1p2pp2/3n3p/2NP4/1P3BP1/PB3P1P/R1R3K1 b - - 0 27

[Event "S-Open/7-pr/90"]
[Site "ICCF"]
[Date "2017.01.31"]
[White "Fremmegaard, Jens Tore"]
[Black "Macurek, Miloslav"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "2185"]
[ECO "D30"]
[WhiteElo "1990"]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O Bd6 7.Nbd2 O-O 8.Re1 c5 9.Qc2 h6 10.b3 cxd4 11.exd4 b6 12.cxd5 Nxd5 13.Qc6 N7f6 14.Qxa8 Qc7 15.Bb2 Bd7 16.Qxf8+ Bxf8 17.Ne5 Bc8 18.Rec1 Qd8 19.Nc6 Qd6 20.Ne4 Nxe4 21.Bxe4 Bb7 22.Ne5 Qd8 23.Nc6 Qe8 24.Ne5 Qa8 25.g3 h5 26.Bf3 f6 27.Nc4 *
(Game continued: Nf4 28.Bxb7 Nh3+ 29.Kg2 Qxb7+ 30.Kxh3 Qf3 31.Rg1 b5 32.Ba3 bxc4 33.Bxf8 Kxf8 34.bxc4 g5 35.Rab1 Kf7 36.a4 Qxf2 37.Rh1 g4+ 38.Kh4 Qd2 39.Rb5 Qg2 40.Rb7+ Kg6 41.h3 Qxh1 42.Rg7+ Kxg7 43.Kxh5 Qxh3# 0-1)

I tried to use even the IDeA for the position (I am most probably using it incorrectly so if anybody from you have any experience with it and can give me an advice or forward me to a good source of information about the topic I would be very grateful) and I could not make it to solve it.

What do you think of it?
Thank you for any opinion or advice!

Looks like Critter1.6 is also good on this position.
Critter1.6 on my old machine running 2 threads consider Nf4 after around
3mins 20 seconds on first try, then 3mins 48seconds on 2nd try.
Could be faster if it is 64bit version of critter on 64 bit Windows on
modern hardware.

.

I suspect I didn't fully understand the question, if it was to find engines/hardware which can solve it quickly, or a way to get IDeA working on it (impossible I guess), or if there's a better system. Maybe, it was all of that. As matter of effectiveness, an automated analysis process isn't to be considered the best way to proceed, as it concentrates its efforts on the moves/variations it'll consider to be the best ones at start of search, IMO.

I know I can be boring with this subject, but the answer is still persistent hashes. On a slow PC, after less than 3 minutes of manual analysis they find the move in 0 seconds, and they'll never forget it.

And it's also a way to remember humans can still play a role with correspondence games.

[MikeGL]

I agree that persistent hash can help. But as pointed out by others, I think it
has drawbacks too since disk access is slower than ram access, unless if you
have SSD as your primary drive which is used by your engine for storing the
hashtable.


.

[Rodolfo Leoni]

............................ disk access is slower than ram access, ...................................

.

I can agree the fact your wife will ask you to accompany her to go shopping sooner or later, so you'll need to save hashes. Except that, there's no disk access... Are we both talking about stockfish_savehash, right? It's only matter to check the "Never clear hash" option on.

Then, if you want to be more realistic, you should connect a DGT board to the GUI. After inviting 20-30 top GMs to share with you the OTB analysis, you can also sell the saved hashes to black market.

[Nordlandia]

Is DDR5 SDRAM much of an improvement over DDR4

For raw engine performance.

[maelic]

I suspect I didn't fully understand the question, if it was to find engines/hardware which can solve it quickly, or a way to get IDeA working on it (impossible I guess), or if there's a better system. Maybe, it was all of that. As matter of effectiveness, an automated analysis process isn't to be considered the best way to proceed, as it concentrates its efforts on the moves/variations it'll consider to be the best ones at start of search, IMO.

I know I can be boring with this subject, but the answer is still persistent hashes. On a slow PC, after less than 3 minutes of manual analysis they find the move in 0 seconds, and they'll never forget it.

And it's also a way to remember humans can still play a role with correspondence games.

It was indeed pretty much all of these

I found the move myself (and I think I was a bit lucky it drawn my attention and wanted to check the line with computer) but no matter how much I tried I could not get any of my engines I had at the time to find it. Now the Critter was suggested (I left it behind a few years ago since I did not consider it competitive enough nowadays) and it did find Nf4 even on my computer without enough computational power. Wonder how it is possible...

I wanted to get into IDeA since some of my friends told me it is a necessity for correspondence chess and that I do not stand a chance without it. Well, so far I have not lost yet. But the truth is if I don't start to find moves like this Nf4 routinely, I might end up needing to find such move not to lose - and I will lose. Is IDeA really so necessary or are there any other methods that are as good/better?

I have not heard about using persistent hash - how do you use it exactly? What do you need to do as a player to make it find such moves?
I saw you guys mentioning McBrain and I asked my good friend about it. He told me it is a very nice SF derivate and it is worth using it. Do you have any reccomendations about it's settings? With default I still could not get it to find Nf4...

Thank you guys for your patience with a patzer