Re: FEOBOS v10 available ... first good version!!
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:25 pm
Hi Jeroen,
OK ...
Much more interesting to read for us is a comment like:
So many years computer chess do nothing for openings / opening books, for new opening book features in chess GUIs. Allways the same boring material.
Main interest is to create a tool for the future. The Excel files are on high end level because all what is possible to use from *.epd is included with a lot of new ideas in Excel. Excel is perfect for such things.
Normely I await from opening experts more a thanks. Because from our experts I see nothing what is new and interesting since many years. So I am thinking OK Frank ... made it better. I can't make it better but our engines can do that.
Now to your comments:
1. Very short one-move-book-exit analysis.
The time for one analysis is factor x20 in comparing to CCRL 40/40 with 10 threads on i7 4.3GHz and 60 seconds per analysis. Possible that in 10 years an available Rating list have the same conditions we are using for FEOBOS. For the moment is the "Very short one-move-book-exit analysis" more as enough for that what we do in engine-engine testing.
Example:
If I would say ... 41.000 positions with 10 engines = 410.000 analysis x one minutes ... I need 1 years (what we do). With two minutes for each analysis 2 years, 3 years for 3 minutes. Very expensive to do that. And believe me for perhaps 2% better results ... made no sense.
But the deal is: Users can create the analysis with 5 minutes on faster Hardware or what they like. Very easy to added the *.epd in our Excel files. All Excel and basic files to FEOBOS project are open no problem. We have here no secrets.
In 20 years with 100 cores and three Minute per analysis ... we can do that and ... the Excel file is developed and ready for it. The main work is complete ready for future events. I like that ... I can used with newer Hardware and engine the Excel file and can start FEOBOS again. The results will be again a stronger book.
For the moment is the FEOBOS qualitiy of analysis for a rating list system, engine tourneys on a very high level.
2. Engine authors
Can looking in Excel and can sort the results with eval information. Can directly see where the own program have Problems and can try to create to fix that. One months a big Topic for Klaus and myself. We developed at first all what can be important for engine authors.
If I read your message step by step ... I am sure ... you have never looked in our Excel files in detail. I create a dia-show, you can looking what we do in the graphics from the worksheets (dia-show).
3. Balanced moves.
What is a bad and what is a balanced move? All that with all the different evals by 10 different engines we are unsing (very complicated but possible to solve) ... pure knowledge after my work on FCP live book. Means my settings are pure knowledge because I checked most of the 300.000 FCP Rating List games by hand for handtuning in FCP Live Book over three years in combination with strong written books to the topics openings. At the moment I have around 370 books only to openings and I can looking if I am sure with my own chess knowledge.
But we are humans and around 1.000 - 1.400 Elo weaker as the engines we are using for FEOBOS with the time control we are using.
But if you have a problem with an "cut eval ... example 0.70 / - 0.40 for Houdini 5 ... no problem. Again, we developed the Excel file very open.
You can set the setting you like ...
So you can added your own settings and Excel calculate the test-set and calculate the ranking position number with your own setting.
Maybe you find the time to study our ideas and maybe you have time to give us hints for improvements, because you are one of the opening experts we have. We have an open ear and maybe we can make FEOBOS with your helps better.
For the moment 10 of the strongest engines create the book in teamwork. The final results are great for eng-eng constellations. And honestly ... I can see nothing what is better ... because what human do have to many errors ... means if a human try to create such an opening book to 500 ECO codes ... not possible in my opinion ... not with such a high qualtity.
So I give my thanks to the programmer of engines. Without the strong engines today are available ... never FEOBOS can produced such a strong results.
I do nothing ...
Klaus do nothing ...
What we do is ... we make that what engines do readable for humans with stats. This with a lot of complete new ideas to our opening Systems and features for the future of computer chess.
Sorry for my bad English.
Have today not a good day.
Need a new car ... the old is defect.
I like the car.
Sorry if my message are to aggressive for you.
Best
Frank
OK ...
Much more interesting to read for us is a comment like:
So many years computer chess do nothing for openings / opening books, for new opening book features in chess GUIs. Allways the same boring material.
Main interest is to create a tool for the future. The Excel files are on high end level because all what is possible to use from *.epd is included with a lot of new ideas in Excel. Excel is perfect for such things.
Normely I await from opening experts more a thanks. Because from our experts I see nothing what is new and interesting since many years. So I am thinking OK Frank ... made it better. I can't make it better but our engines can do that.
Now to your comments:
1. Very short one-move-book-exit analysis.
The time for one analysis is factor x20 in comparing to CCRL 40/40 with 10 threads on i7 4.3GHz and 60 seconds per analysis. Possible that in 10 years an available Rating list have the same conditions we are using for FEOBOS. For the moment is the "Very short one-move-book-exit analysis" more as enough for that what we do in engine-engine testing.
Example:
If I would say ... 41.000 positions with 10 engines = 410.000 analysis x one minutes ... I need 1 years (what we do). With two minutes for each analysis 2 years, 3 years for 3 minutes. Very expensive to do that. And believe me for perhaps 2% better results ... made no sense.
But the deal is: Users can create the analysis with 5 minutes on faster Hardware or what they like. Very easy to added the *.epd in our Excel files. All Excel and basic files to FEOBOS project are open no problem. We have here no secrets.
In 20 years with 100 cores and three Minute per analysis ... we can do that and ... the Excel file is developed and ready for it. The main work is complete ready for future events. I like that ... I can used with newer Hardware and engine the Excel file and can start FEOBOS again. The results will be again a stronger book.
For the moment is the FEOBOS qualitiy of analysis for a rating list system, engine tourneys on a very high level.
2. Engine authors
Can looking in Excel and can sort the results with eval information. Can directly see where the own program have Problems and can try to create to fix that. One months a big Topic for Klaus and myself. We developed at first all what can be important for engine authors.
If I read your message step by step ... I am sure ... you have never looked in our Excel files in detail. I create a dia-show, you can looking what we do in the graphics from the worksheets (dia-show).
3. Balanced moves.
What is a bad and what is a balanced move? All that with all the different evals by 10 different engines we are unsing (very complicated but possible to solve) ... pure knowledge after my work on FCP live book. Means my settings are pure knowledge because I checked most of the 300.000 FCP Rating List games by hand for handtuning in FCP Live Book over three years in combination with strong written books to the topics openings. At the moment I have around 370 books only to openings and I can looking if I am sure with my own chess knowledge.
But we are humans and around 1.000 - 1.400 Elo weaker as the engines we are using for FEOBOS with the time control we are using.
But if you have a problem with an "cut eval ... example 0.70 / - 0.40 for Houdini 5 ... no problem. Again, we developed the Excel file very open.
You can set the setting you like ...
So you can added your own settings and Excel calculate the test-set and calculate the ranking position number with your own setting.
Maybe you find the time to study our ideas and maybe you have time to give us hints for improvements, because you are one of the opening experts we have. We have an open ear and maybe we can make FEOBOS with your helps better.
For the moment 10 of the strongest engines create the book in teamwork. The final results are great for eng-eng constellations. And honestly ... I can see nothing what is better ... because what human do have to many errors ... means if a human try to create such an opening book to 500 ECO codes ... not possible in my opinion ... not with such a high qualtity.
So I give my thanks to the programmer of engines. Without the strong engines today are available ... never FEOBOS can produced such a strong results.
I do nothing ...
Klaus do nothing ...
What we do is ... we make that what engines do readable for humans with stats. This with a lot of complete new ideas to our opening Systems and features for the future of computer chess.
Sorry for my bad English.
Have today not a good day.
Need a new car ... the old is defect.
I like the car.
Sorry if my message are to aggressive for you.
Best
Frank