Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:59 pm
Did this published paper give any estimate for perfect chess? One figure has 3500 limit or +100 from SF8. Are we near? Where is Kai, when we need him 
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Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:00 pm
Why would they have a clue of what is perfect chess?
Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:57 pm
Where did you see that? My impression is the opposite, they explicitly did not use any prior human chess knowledge besides the basic rules, hence the "Zero" in AlphaZero.corres wrote:2, Alpha Zero did not start from zero knowledge about chess
because it was [fed] a lot of human games at start up.
Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:13 pm
personally i have no doubt that the "4 hours thing" is the truth...and even if its 4 days, thats no difference imo....the fact, that that "process" manages to get to such a ultra-high level of playingstrengh is nothing other than revolutionary and thats simply a scary, very scary, fact that we are faced with 
Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta
Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:34 pm
They did more than that. They published a scientific paper anyone can read.Rebel wrote:Can't believe it without a press release from Google.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-futur ... arns-chess
Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta
Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:38 pm
Why not actually cite a paper instead of your article, why the need for self-promotion?Albert Silver wrote:They did more than that. They published a scientific paper anyone can read.Rebel wrote:Can't believe it without a press release from Google.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-futur ... arns-chess
https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.01815
Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:38 pm
I started following yesterday this development, I have no much time recently.Jouni wrote:Did this published paper give any estimate for perfect chess? One figure has 3500 limit or +100 from SF8. Are we near? Where is Kai, when we need him
About your question. First, to define perfect chess. Say, perfect chess in the sense of non-swindling or fooling around, 32-men tablebases.
I had a wide range of estimates, from 3700-4500 CCRL 40/40 rating points, and with the latest data of Andreas Strangmüller tipping to the lower bound, say 3800.
With this result, +28 =72 -0 (is it correct, or I missed some more results?), the tip is again towards a low bound in ELO. a +36 =56 -8 result would tip towards a higher ELO bound, although the ELO advantage of AlphaZero would have been the same over SF8.
It seems both these monsters play very often perfect moves, and sometimes maybe even perfect games. So, it seems the ELO bound cannot be very far away.
Re: MCTS-NN vs alpha-beta
Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:41 pm
Because I wanted to.Milos wrote:Why not actually cite a paper instead of your article, why the need for self-promotion?Albert Silver wrote:They did more than that. They published a scientific paper anyone can read.Rebel wrote:Can't believe it without a press release from Google.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-futur ... arns-chess
https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.01815
Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:43 pm
Alpha Zero won only 3 games with black.Laskos wrote:I started following yesterday this development, I have no much time recently.Jouni wrote:Did this published paper give any estimate for perfect chess? One figure has 3500 limit or +100 from SF8. Are we near? Where is Kai, when we need him
About your question. First, to define perfect chess. Say, perfect chess in the sense of non-swindling or fooling around, 32-men tablebases.
I had a wide range of estimates, from 3700-4500 CCRL 40/40 rating points, and with the latest data of Andreas Strangmüller tipping to the lower bound, say 3800.
Again, this result, +28 =72 -0 (is it correct, or I missed some more results?), the tip is again towards a low bound in ELO. a +36 =56 -8 result would tip towards a higher ELO bound, although the ELO advantage of AlphaZero would have been the same over SF8.
It seems both these monsters play very often perfect moves, and sometimes maybe even perfect games. So, it seems the ELO bound cannot be very far away.
Re: Historic Milestone: AlphaZero
Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:47 pm
In a way this is the end of chess.
In 25 years, the end of us as the leading mental entity in the earth.
Becoming a kitten regards
F
In 25 years, the end of us as the leading mental entity in the earth.
Becoming a kitten regards
F