Finally I beat OpenTal, BUT...

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fern
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Finally I beat OpenTal, BUT...

Post by fern » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:22 pm

..but of the most unworthy, shameful manner; he lost in time.
I did it in Lucas GUI.
The formula or recipe is this: you parry every attack of the beast and he does not take into account how his time is running out because in every turn he try again to kill you and use same amount of time, so sooner or later, if you defend OK and use less time, you win...
Not a very beautiful way to play chess
Nevertheless, very useful to train your defense repertoire.

Fern

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Ovyron
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Re: Finally I beat OpenTal, BUT...

Post by Ovyron » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:37 pm

Fischer and bonus time controls all the way!

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fern
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Re: Finally I beat OpenTal, BUT...

Post by fern » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:38 pm

NOpe
I use conventional control and my favorite is 40 moves in 60 minutes
Enough long, enough short

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Ovyron
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Re: Finally I beat OpenTal, BUT...

Post by Ovyron » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:50 pm

Oh, I had assumed you were playing bullet or blitz and that caused the engine to lose on time, but they were classical time controls. Anyway, congrats!

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Ponti
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Re: Finally I beat OpenTal, BUT...

Post by Ponti » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:31 am

I´ve already noticed it when testing OpenTal x Prodeo "strong club player.eng". OpenTal often loses by time,or perhaps Prodeo is too strong for OpenTal...
A. Ponti
AMD Ryzen 1800x, Windows 10.
FIDE current ratings: standard 1913, rapid 1931

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Ovyron
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Re: Finally I beat OpenTal, BUT...

Post by Ovyron » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:31 am

Ponti wrote:I´ve already noticed it when testing OpenTal x Prodeo "strong club player.eng". OpenTal often loses by time,or perhaps Prodeo is too strong for OpenTal...
In what GUI did this happen? Apparently some GUIs are bugged and let one side win on time.

This isn't new, that's how Pablo used to beat engines usually.

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Re: Finally I beat OpenTal, BUT...

Post by BrendanJNorman » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:32 am

Ovyron wrote:
Ponti wrote:I´ve already noticed it when testing OpenTal x Prodeo "strong club player.eng". OpenTal often loses by time,or perhaps Prodeo is too strong for OpenTal...
In what GUI did this happen? Apparently some GUIs are bugged and let one side win on time.

This isn't new, that's how Pablo used to beat engines usually.
I wouldn't really call exploiting a software bug "winning" :lol:

Fritz GUI used to be notorious for this type of thing.

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Ovyron
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Re: Finally I beat OpenTal, BUT...

Post by Ovyron » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:15 am

BrendanJNorman wrote:I wouldn't really call exploiting a software bug "winning" :lol:
Well, winning is winning. I have won plenty of games due to "human bugs" (mainly mouse slips, but also poor moves made when they're low on time and have to resort to premoving, recently my opponent had to resign in an equal position because they had to go), and I get the same rating points that I get when I play great chess, sometimes you can be successful by just showing up (Woody Allen) :)

I do agree though, in the usage of "quotes" (picture me doing air quotes with my hands.)

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Re: Finally I beat OpenTal, BUT...

Post by BrendanJNorman » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:17 am

Ovyron wrote:Well, winning is winning.
Come on man... :lol:

Difficult to become a strong player with this attitude.

A win is a win, only when your opponent puts up resistance and succumbs regardless - due to your superior play! :wink:

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Ovyron
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Re: Finally I beat OpenTal, BUT...

Post by Ovyron » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:43 am

BrendanJNorman wrote:Difficult to become a strong player with this attitude.
Tell me about it! At lichess I had to abandon my beloved incremental games because they don't play tournaments with it, so I had to stick to 10+0 time controls, and lost 100 rating points :shock:
BrendanJNorman wrote:A win is a win, only when your opponent puts up resistance and succumbs regardless - due to your superior play! :wink:
At my level, victories like those are very rare...

More and more it feels like I don't win any of my games, it's my opponents that lose them with some random blunder that they would have made against anybody else :?

Let me show you my strongest win of the week, against a 1900+ something player (my shown rating is Classic Provisional, but I actually Berserked and turned this into a 10+0)

[pgn][Site "https://lichess.org/d3K4nM7u"]
[Date "2018.01.12"]
[Round "-"]
[White "How2lose"]
[Black "Ovyron"]
[Result "0-1"]
[UTCDate "2018.01.12"]
[UTCTime "22:45:48"]
[WhiteElo "1941"]
[BlackElo "1577"]
[WhiteRatingDiff "-38"]
[BlackRatingDiff "+74"]
[Variant "Standard"]
[TimeControl "1200+10"]
[ECO "A38"]
[Opening "English Opening: Symmetrical Variation, Duchamp Variation"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[Event "Classical Shield Arena"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. O-O O-O 6. Nc3 Nc6 7. d3 { A38 English Opening: Symmetrical Variation, Duchamp Variation } b6 8. a3 Rb8 9. b3 Bb7 10. Bb2 a6 11. e4 d6 12. Qc2 e5 13. Nd5 Nd4 14. Nxd4 Nxd5 15. Nf3 Ne7 16. Rad1 Qc7 17. Rfe1 b5 18. Nd2 Nc6 19. f4 Nd4 20. Qc1 bxc4 21. bxc4 Bc6 22. fxe5 Bxe5 23. Bxd4 Bxd4+ 24. Kh1 Bb2 25. Qc2 Bxa3 26. Ra1 Bb2 27. Rxa6 Be5 28. Nf3 Rb2 29. Rxc6 Qxc6 30. Nxe5 Rxc2 31. Nxc6 Re8 32. e5 f6 33. Bd5+ Kh8 34. e6 Kg7 35. Ra1 Rd2 36. Ra7+ Kh6 37. e7 Re2 38. Bf7 Rc8 39. Nd8 Rb8 40. Rb7 Ra8 41. Rb1 Rxe7 42. Bxg6 hxg6 43. Nc6 Rc7 44. Rb6 Ra3 45. Nd8 Rxd3 46. Kg2 Rd7 47. Ne6 Rc3 48. Rb8 Rxc4 49. h4 Rc2+ 50. Kh3 Re2 51. Nf4 Ree7 52. Rf8 Kg7 53. Rc8 Kf7 54. Rh8 Kg7 55. Rc8 g5 56. hxg5 fxg5 57. Nd5 Rf7 58. Kg4 Kg6 59. Rg8+ Rg7 60. Rf8 Kh6 61. Rf6+ Rg6 62. Rf5 Ra7 63. Rf8 Ra4+ 64. Kh3 Kg7 65. Rd8 c4 66. Rd7+ Kh6 67. Ne7 Re6 68. Nf5+ Kg6 69. g4 c3 70. Rg7+ Kf6 71. Rc7 Ra3 72. Nh6 c2+ 73. Kg2 Re2+ 74. Kf1 Rae3 75. Ng8+ Kg6 { White resigns. } 0-1[/pgn]

30...Rxc2?? is a game losing blunder, I should have lost or resigned after that, or something.

But then they play 40.Rb7??, allowing 40...Ra8 that threatens mate, and the rest is history.

A true win shows a different graph, where one gains small advantages until they're overwhelming and wins, by superior play, but my wins look like big zig zags with blunders by me and the opponent. Like, the penultimate blunderer loses! :shock:

But these last blunders that allow me to win don't really look different from mouse slips or wins on time because my opponent didn't pay attention to the clocks. So at this level I'll celebrate those as well.

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