Komodo updates Sub

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rainhaus
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:26 pm

Re: Komodo updates Sub

Post by rainhaus » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:45 am

Rebel wrote:Some people recognize cryptic stuff, some don't.
Cryptically? All right, decoding....

Crocodile or tree trunk? Chimera or correct perception? Reality or illusion? Fact or projection? Subjective or objective? True own playing style of a chess engine or only playful and benevolent human interpretation?

A nice thought-provoking impulse with the help of this swamp image, IMHO now. At first I thought you were just making a harmless joke according to: we all need a little fun. Of course, I was gonna join in.

:idea:
Thread viewImage
flat view
is a bad view
without thread view

leavenfish
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:23 am

Re: Komodo updates Sub

Post by leavenfish » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:24 pm

Juan Molina pointed out to me, this about Komodo updates:

9->May 6, 2015 45 days to next update
9.1->June 20, 2015 62 days to next update
9.2->August 21, 2015 97 days to next update
9.3->November 26, 2015 113 days to next update
9.4->March 18, 2016 61 days to next update
10->May 18, 2016 64 days to next update
10.1->July 21, 2016 100 days to next update
10.2->Oct. 29, 2016 53 days to next update
10.3->Dec. 21, 2016 83 days to next update
10.4->March 14, 2017 69 days to next update
11->May 22, 2017 56 days to next update
11.2->July 17, 2017 222 days and counting

I have 8 days remaining on my subscription. Boy did I get shafted. Seriously, team Komodo needs to push out their best update every....say 2 months (even if it's tiny) if this subscription model is to pass the test. A real business model would care more for their customers. :cry:

Paloma
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Komodo updates Sub

Post by Paloma » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:55 pm

+1

mjlef
Posts: 1424
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Komodo updates Sub

Post by mjlef » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:57 pm

leavenfish wrote:Juan Molina pointed out to me, this about Komodo updates:

9->May 6, 2015 45 days to next update
9.1->June 20, 2015 62 days to next update
9.2->August 21, 2015 97 days to next update
9.3->November 26, 2015 113 days to next update
9.4->March 18, 2016 61 days to next update
10->May 18, 2016 64 days to next update
10.1->July 21, 2016 100 days to next update
10.2->Oct. 29, 2016 53 days to next update
10.3->Dec. 21, 2016 83 days to next update
10.4->March 14, 2017 69 days to next update
11->May 22, 2017 56 days to next update
11.2->July 17, 2017 222 days and counting

I have 8 days remaining on my subscription. Boy did I get shafted. Seriously, team Komodo needs to push out their best update every....say 2 months (even if it's tiny) if this subscription model is to pass the test. A real business model would care more for their customers. :cry:
I actually do not have time to monitor all the chess forums to see messages like this. Fortunately someone told me to look for it. I suppose you do not have time to also look for all our replies, but we have posted them.

So, here is what your data shows:

We have had lots of updates in the past, some in as few as 45, 53 and 56 days. Under 2 months. When we announce the subscription we said we would try to have around 3 versions a year. We have exceeded that a lot, getting big elo gains out very quickly. In fact, except for the final period, we always had updates in less than 120 days. So we beat our estimates. Looking at the data, the average is 85 days. So that means most customers have received 4 versions of Komodo in a year when we were only shooting for 3.

In the past year, we have had health issues, and both of my parents died (just over one week apart). Caring for them, including packing up their household goods and moving them halfway across the country took up a lot of my time. Time I am glad I spent with them. Yes, it took away time working on Komodo, but it was important to me. Sending out a new version is time consuming since it involves a lot of testing, website update, revising the manual and answering a lot of questions.

Finally, should you be talking with me or Larry about this instead of posting complaints on this forum? After exceeding our goals for so long, are you unwilling to check with us to see what is going on?

For those who have contacted me I have explained we would extend anyone's subscription that would miss the next update by a few months.

Try kindness.

Mark

leavenfish
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:23 am

Re: Komodo updates Sub

Post by leavenfish » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:10 am

mjlef wrote: In fact, except for the final period, we always had updates in less than 120 days. So we beat our estimates. Looking at the data, the average is 85 days. So that means most customers have received 4 versions of Komodo in a year when we were only shooting for 3.Mark
When one has $$ in the stock market, yes 'over the long haul'...things look a certain way. But for someone in it for a year....they can lose their shirt. A subscription is for....1 year.
mjlef wrote: In the past year, we have had health issues, and both of my parents died (just over one week apart).
Mark
And the time you took away for that is perfectly understandable and as it should be. No one faults you for that, not in the least.
mjlef wrote:Finally, should you be talking with me or Larry about this instead of posting complaints on this forum? After exceeding our goals for so long, are you unwilling to check with us to see what is going on?Mark
I know about your personal setbacks...I've seen them mentioned everywhere. What I have not seen is what you say here. Thank you for what you are now saying.
mjlef wrote: For those who have contacted me I have explained we would extend anyone's subscription that would miss the next update by a few months.
Mark
Again, thank you for mentioning this. I dug around and found your email listed in the help section of the website. I will contact you that way. Again thanks and sorry...just never have seen you state what you state here about extensions.

Milton
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:58 pm

Re: Komodo updates Sub

Post by Milton » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:46 am

leavenfish wrote:
mjlef wrote: In fact, except for the final period, we always had updates in less than 120 days. So we beat our estimates. Looking at the data, the average is 85 days. So that means most customers have received 4 versions of Komodo in a year when we were only shooting for 3.Mark
When one has $$ in the stock market, yes 'over the long haul'...things look a certain way. But for someone in it for a year....they can lose their shirt. A subscription is for....1 year.
mjlef wrote: In the past year, we have had health issues, and both of my parents died (just over one week apart).
Mark
And the time you took away for that is perfectly understandable and as it should be. No one faults you for that, not in the least.
mjlef wrote:Finally, should you be talking with me or Larry about this instead of posting complaints on this forum? After exceeding our goals for so long, are you unwilling to check with us to see what is going on?Mark
I know about your personal setbacks...I've seen them mentioned everywhere. What I have not seen is what you say here. Thank you for what you are now saying.
mjlef wrote: For those who have contacted me I have explained we would extend anyone's subscription that would miss the next update by a few months.
Mark
Again, thank you for mentioning this. I dug around and found your email listed in the help section of the website. I will contact you that way. Again thanks and sorry...just never have seen you state what you state here about extensions.
I am also glad to hear this. I sent an email to Mark on Jan 3 and his 2 sentence reply was less than informative and felt a little like a brush off:

To:komodochesshelp Details
Hi Mark,

Do you have a rough estimate of when you expect to release a new Komodo update to subscription customers. No pressure -- I totally get that it's hard to predict breakthroughs and that the stronger an engine is, the harder it is to add elo. Still, do you have a ballpark guess as to when you expect to issue new release? Thanks for your response, and for a great program!

Regards,
Milton


Komodo Chess (komodochesshelp@gmail.com)To:you Details

No, sorry. We need a few more elo before we release the next version.

User avatar
Ozymandias
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:30 am

Re: Komodo updates Sub

Post by Ozymandias » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:03 am

mjlef wrote:
leavenfish wrote:Juan Molina pointed out to me, this about Komodo updates:

9->May 6, 2015 45 days to next update
9.1->June 20, 2015 62 days to next update
9.2->August 21, 2015 97 days to next update
9.3->November 26, 2015 113 days to next update
9.4->March 18, 2016 61 days to next update
10->May 18, 2016 64 days to next update
10.1->July 21, 2016 100 days to next update
10.2->Oct. 29, 2016 53 days to next update
10.3->Dec. 21, 2016 83 days to next update
10.4->March 14, 2017 69 days to next update
11->May 22, 2017 56 days to next update
11.2->July 17, 2017 222 days and counting

I have 8 days remaining on my subscription. Boy did I get shafted. Seriously, team Komodo needs to push out their best update every....say 2 months (even if it's tiny) if this subscription model is to pass the test. A real business model would care more for their customers. :cry:
I actually do not have time to monitor all the chess forums to see messages like this. Fortunately someone told me to look for it. I suppose you do not have time to also look for all our replies, but we have posted them.

So, here is what your data shows:

We have had lots of updates in the past, some in as few as 45, 53 and 56 days. Under 2 months. When we announce the subscription we said we would try to have around 3 versions a year. We have exceeded that a lot, getting big elo gains out very quickly. In fact, except for the final period, we always had updates in less than 120 days. So we beat our estimates. Looking at the data, the average is 85 days. So that means most customers have received 4 versions of Komodo in a year when we were only shooting for 3.

In the past year, we have had health issues, and both of my parents died (just over one week apart). Caring for them, including packing up their household goods and moving them halfway across the country took up a lot of my time. Time I am glad I spent with them. Yes, it took away time working on Komodo, but it was important to me. Sending out a new version is time consuming since it involves a lot of testing, website update, revising the manual and answering a lot of questions.

Finally, should you be talking with me or Larry about this instead of posting complaints on this forum? After exceeding our goals for so long, are you unwilling to check with us to see what is going on?

For those who have contacted me I have explained we would extend anyone's subscription that would miss the next update by a few months.

Try kindness.

Mark
To avoid confusions, here's the link to my post.

As I see it, and I'm not a subscriber, the problem you now face is (paradoxically), the fact that the Komodo team has been overshooting its target. When you always do that, people take habit for written law, and forget what it's in black over white. Extending the subscription period would only be necessary for those who didn't reach the required number of updates (3); this hasn't happened yet, and won't happen unless the next update doesn't come before the second half of March. If it were released later, someone might be in a position where getting the promised 3 updates wasn't possible, in that case extending the subscription period would be warranted, anything else is a gift.

Hurnavich
Posts: 718
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: Komodo updates Sub

Post by Hurnavich » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:44 am

As I see it, and I'm not a subscriber, the problem you now face is (paradoxically), the fact that the Komodo team has been overshooting its target. When you always do that, people take habit for written law, and forget what it's in black over white. Extending the subscription period would only be necessary for those who didn't reach the required number of updates (3); this hasn't happened yet, and won't happen unless the next update doesn't come before the second half of March. If it were released later, someone might be in a position where getting the promised 3 updates wasn't possible, in that case extending the subscription period would be warranted, anything else is a gift.
Just a point the web site states 3-5 updates in the sub time frame eg i have 143 days left so to take the lowest of 3 updates this would from my point of view required 2 more updates as i have had only one engine.So an extension of time may be warranted.I think the main problem is lack of communication from Komodo team to it's customers for eg when a new release is given a post shows on here and another site but if like myself i do not visit here that often in a year then i would miss this as i never get any emails to advise me on release.

It may be that it is difficult to gain much ELO in the time frame but is that what this engine is all about now? what about features?

The tcec tournament has Komodo 2012.00 running,and on playchess i have seen 2016.00
Do testers have these? why not sub have a release based on one of these?
Just a thought.
"May your next game be your best"

User avatar
Ozymandias
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:30 am

Re: Komodo updates Sub

Post by Ozymandias » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:58 am

Hurnavich wrote:
As I see it, and I'm not a subscriber, the problem you now face is (paradoxically), the fact that the Komodo team has been overshooting its target. When you always do that, people take habit for written law, and forget what it's in black over white. Extending the subscription period would only be necessary for those who didn't reach the required number of updates (3); this hasn't happened yet, and won't happen unless the next update doesn't come before the second half of March. If it were released later, someone might be in a position where getting the promised 3 updates wasn't possible, in that case extending the subscription period would be warranted, anything else is a gift.
Just a point the web site states 3-5 updates in the sub time frame eg i have 143 days left so to take the lowest of 3 updates this would from my point of view required 2 more updates as i have had only one engine.So an extension of time may be warranted.I think the main problem is lack of communication from Komodo team to it's customers for eg when a new release is given a post shows on here and another site but if like myself i do not visit here that often in a year then i would miss this as i never get any emails to advise me on release.

It may be that it is difficult to gain much ELO in the time frame but is that what this engine is all about now? what about features?

The tcec tournament has Komodo 2012.00 running,and on playchess i have seen 2016.00
Do testers have these? why not sub have a release based on one of these?
Just a thought.
143 days are a lot of days, I'd wait until I'm close to the deadline, before counting how many updates I've got, vs how many I'm supposed to.

I don't know about developers-subscribers communication.

I agree on new features, as an alternative to Elo gains, at least so that releases can be rolled out in a more timely fashion.

Of course testers have those versions, otherwise they wouldn't be able to test them. Subscribers don't have them, because they haven't undergo the more rigorous testing procedures, they surely perform on public releases.

Hurnavich
Posts: 718
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: Komodo updates Sub

Post by Hurnavich » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:27 am

143 days are a lot of days, I'd wait until I'm close to the deadline, before counting how many updates I've got, vs how many I'm supposed to.

I don't know about developers-subscribers communication.

I agree on new features, as an alternative to Elo gains, at least so that releases can be rolled out in a more timely fashion.

Of course testers have those versions, otherwise they wouldn't be able to test them. Subscribers don't have them, because they haven't undergo the more rigorous testing procedures, they surely perform on public releases.
Agreed but some may have fewer days, as for testers well i have many times in the past put forward bugs not just to Komodo and yes they have been resolved as a result.My point is even after all there beta testing we the user can still dig up issues but that is a good thing as it helps improve the software with bug fixes, the point i'm trying to make is we could be a sort of extension of beta testers.I'm not talking countless updates but when they have got a tested stable unit like perhaps the 2016.00 or 2012.00 we could as subscribers be fueling or passion :)[/quote]
"May your next game be your best"

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