2 open projects

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Harvey Williamson, bob

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.

stockfish vs lczero

Poll ended at Thu May 03, 2018 11:20 pm

lczero will attract more ppl, leaving the stockfish project to die
2
5%
lczero will saturate so stockfish will continue to prevail
3
8%
both projects will continue to be supported without to hurt each other
33
87%
 
Total votes: 38

stavros
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:29 am

2 open projects

Post by stavros » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:20 pm

lets predict the future:

User avatar
Graham Banks
Posts: 32762
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: 2 open projects

Post by Graham Banks » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:20 am

lczero will attract more ppl, leaving the stockfish project with fewer helping out, but without dying.
My email addresses:
gbanksnz at gmail.com
gbanksnz at yahoo.co.nz

BrendanJNorman
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:43 pm
Full name: Brendan J Norman

Re: 2 open projects

Post by BrendanJNorman » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:31 am

Graham Banks wrote:lczero will attract more ppl, leaving the stockfish project with fewer helping out, but without dying.
Agreed.

When LZZero catches SF in terms of strength, the superior playing style and comparable strength will leave only the diehard Stockfish heads to continue that particular work.

That's my feeling anyway.

jdart
Posts: 3780
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:23 am
Location: http://www.arasanchess.org

Re: 2 open projects

Post by jdart » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:59 am

I am really amazed how far people are jumping to conclusions.

Does LC0 on high-end GPU currently beat GNU Chess 5 on a quad CPU? (GNU Chess is over 700 ELO below Stockfish)? I am not clear about that but based on recent results I doubt it.

--Jon

Milos
Posts: 3370
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:47 am

Re: 2 open projects

Post by Milos » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:11 am

jdart wrote:I am really amazed how far people are jumping to conclusions.

Does LC0 on high-end GPU currently beat GNU Chess 5 on a quad CPU? (GNU Chess is over 700 ELO below Stockfish)? I am not clear about that but based on recent results I doubt it.

--Jon
LC0 on high-end GPU with 1s/move can't even beat SF fixed depth 10.

BrendanJNorman
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:43 pm
Full name: Brendan J Norman

Re: 2 open projects

Post by BrendanJNorman » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:38 am

jdart wrote:I am really amazed how far people are jumping to conclusions.
I personally, wasn't assuming that my prediction would happen tomorrow.

Even if it took ten years, I believe my prediction (and Graham's) would be most likely.

LCZero despite being weak currently, is as far as I can see, the biggest change in computer chess since Rybka 1.0 (plz correct me if I'm wrong), so even if it takes a decade, wouldn't it be realistic to predict that one day it - or some entity much like it - will be dominant?

I believe this poll was about the preferences of computer chess enthusiasts, if/when this outcome becomes a reality.

To me that's not jumping to conclusions.

Dann Corbit
Posts: 9829
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA
Contact:

Re: 2 open projects

Post by Dann Corbit » Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:35 am

They need totally different resources.

LCZero needs GPUs

Stockfish needs CPUs
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

APassionForCriminalJustic
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat May 24, 2014 7:16 am

Re: 2 open projects

Post by APassionForCriminalJustic » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:17 am

BrendanJNorman wrote:
jdart wrote:I am really amazed how far people are jumping to conclusions.
I personally, wasn't assuming that my prediction would happen tomorrow.

Even if it took ten years, I believe my prediction (and Graham's) would be most likely.

LCZero despite being weak currently, is as far as I can see, the biggest change in computer chess since Rybka 1.0 (plz correct me if I'm wrong), so even if it takes a decade, wouldn't it be realistic to predict that one day it - or some entity much like it - will be dominant?

I believe this poll was about the preferences of computer chess enthusiasts, if/when this outcome becomes a reality.

To me that's not jumping to conclusions.

Frankly ten years from now stockfish would be so disgustingly strong that no one would really care about lc zero.

BrendanJNorman
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:43 pm
Full name: Brendan J Norman

Re: 2 open projects

Post by BrendanJNorman » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:28 am

APassionForCriminalJustic wrote:
Frankly ten years from now stockfish would be so disgustingly strong that no one would really care about lc zero.
Now that's jumping to conclusions. :lol:

Someone remind me which was the strongest engine in 2008?

Ten years changes a lot and since the application of AI to strategy games has been growing exponentially in recent years (especially compared to 2008), predicting that SF will still be dominant in another ten years is pretty optimistic.

I could be wrong, but common sense suggests otherwise.

Will be fun to watch either way.

JJJ
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:47 am

Re: 2 open projects

Post by JJJ » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:52 am

APassionForCriminalJustic wrote:
BrendanJNorman wrote:
jdart wrote:I am really amazed how far people are jumping to conclusions.
I personally, wasn't assuming that my prediction would happen tomorrow.

Even if it took ten years, I believe my prediction (and Graham's) would be most likely.

LCZero despite being weak currently, is as far as I can see, the biggest change in computer chess since Rybka 1.0 (plz correct me if I'm wrong), so even if it takes a decade, wouldn't it be realistic to predict that one day it - or some entity much like it - will be dominant?

I believe this poll was about the preferences of computer chess enthusiasts, if/when this outcome becomes a reality.

To me that's not jumping to conclusions.

Frankly ten years from now stockfish would be so disgustingly strong that no one would really care about lc zero.
In ten years engines like stockfish won't exist anymore and only engine like alpha zero leela zero will dominate because it is a better way to reach elo.

Self learning is future. Many program has shown that already.

Post Reply