hgm wrote:Oh, if the goal is just to make a strong engine, I am sure you can do much better than AlphaZero, algorithm wise. By not presenting the NN just with a raw position, but already pre-processing the position in a way known to be relevant for Chess, such as number of attackers / protectors of each square, the lowest attacker/protector of each square, pinned pieces and discovered attacks, etc. I am pretty sure it must recognize such elementary features to be any good, and then it would not have to learn recognizing them (in a way that even after it has learned it will be quite calculationally intensive).
Lol, you are sure. When you are so sure, why don't you contribute with some code to LC0 git. Doesn't have to be main inefficient OpenCL code of Gian-Carlo, you can contribute to TF brench of it. Just implement your net in keras and add it to the repository so we can all test how strong it becomes. I'm pretty convinced ppl would test whatever you post no matter how much "out of spirit" of original A0 it was.
But somehow, I have a feeling you won't because you have no clue how. You know just to go around and splash your "wisdom".
Says you?
Did you ever contribute anything, apart from overflowing this forum with vulgarity and technical words you understand at best 10% of?
hgm wrote:Oh, if the goal is just to make a strong engine, I am sure you can do much better than AlphaZero, algorithm wise. By not presenting the NN just with a raw position, but already pre-processing the position in a way known to be relevant for Chess, such as number of attackers / protectors of each square, the lowest attacker/protector of each square, pinned pieces and discovered attacks, etc. I am pretty sure it must recognize such elementary features to be any good, and then it would not have to learn recognizing them (in a way that even after it has learned it will be quite calculationally intensive).
Lol, you are sure. When you are so sure, why don't you contribute with some code to LC0 git. Doesn't have to be main inefficient OpenCL code of Gian-Carlo, you can contribute to TF brench of it. Just implement your net in keras and add it to the repository so we can all test how strong it becomes. I'm pretty convinced ppl would test whatever you post no matter how much "out of spirit" of original A0 it was.
But somehow, I have a feeling you won't because you have no clue how. You know just to go around and splash your "wisdom".
Says you?
Did you ever contribute anything, apart from overflowing this forum with vulgarity and technical words you understand at best 10% of?
Why it doesn't surprise me when it comes from the second most arrogant Dutch guy and second most arrogant overall person on this forum .
I was not the one going around and claiming to be sure which net is the best for LC0 and how to make it, but your countryman whose devil's advocate you are so eager to play.
What is it with you Dutch guys, you are holding each others asses like nothing and you are arrogant beyond comprehension, with constant need to show you are better than others...
[Moderation (HGM)] I received the following complaint about this posting:
Abusive, racist and vulgar at best...
Are we going to have to endure his insults without any moderation ?
Because it addresses me I don't feel it would be correct to act against it myself, so I will leave the decision to another moderator.
Indeed, but at source-code level. So Elo/character.
Not a metric that the average buyer of a Chess engine would give a hoot about, of course.
I am confident we can configure Stockfish using cutting-edge industry techniques to get the desired Min-Max match result for any metric the average buyer gives a hoot about.
The metric the average buyer cares the most about is always money. Given that, it's going to be a stretch to say that Stockfish can keep up with NN-based engines in even a year or two, as GPUs and specialized tensor cores continue to drop in cost.
Indeed, but at source-code level. So Elo/character.
Not a metric that the average buyer of a Chess engine would give a hoot about, of course.
I am confident we can configure Stockfish using cutting-edge industry techniques to get the desired Min-Max match result for any metric the average buyer gives a hoot about.
The metric the average buyer cares the most about is always money. Given that, it's going to be a stretch to say that Stockfish can keep up with NN-based engines in even a year or two, as GPUs and specialized tensor cores continue to drop in cost.
Price doesn't matter if you can't buy them in sufficient quantities which is currently the case and will most likely continue to be the case until crypto currency mining stops.
Daniel Shawul wrote:Sigh..wake me up when it is 2800 elo running on singe CPU core, which is what every other engine uses in rating lists. As far as I am concerned, it is still a 2100 elo engine there.
And on and on as a broken record, full thread of your nonsensical "impressions" that you have been repeatedly bringing up already over the other threads only to have them debunked again and again - and yet it clearly doesn't stop you. Sorry but at this point I think you must be trolling.
Anybody who dares to question and wont fall in line is trolling for you ?? Here for instance it is
Claimed LcO is a 2800 elo engine when my tests and also CEGT tests it seems says it is 2100, that is one big question that needs to be addressed. Whether you like it or not that is the fact at the moment.
Meanwhile, your so-called 2100 elo engine is quite matched (right now 2-2) vs. The Baron ON EQUAL HARDWARE at TCEC bonus matches, in 10m+6s TC...
Daniel Shawul wrote:Sigh..wake me up when it is 2800 elo running on singe CPU core, which is what every other engine uses in rating lists. As far as I am concerned, it is still a 2100 elo engine there.
And on and on as a broken record, full thread of your nonsensical "impressions" that you have been repeatedly bringing up already over the other threads only to have them debunked again and again - and yet it clearly doesn't stop you. Sorry but at this point I think you must be trolling.
Anybody who dares to question and wont fall in line is trolling for you ?? Here for instance it is
Claimed LcO is a 2800 elo engine when my tests and also CEGT tests it seems says it is 2100, that is one big question that needs to be addressed. Whether you like it or not that is the fact at the moment.
Meanwhile, your so-called 2100 elo engine is quite matched (right now 2-2) vs. The Baron ON EQUAL HARDWARE at TCEC bonus matches, in 10m+6s TC...
4 games in and you jump to conclusions. Your enthusiasm is so high of LCZero, you try it against Rybka 4.1 and start celebrating after one draw. Anyway, thanks for alerting me to the bonus games. It is still a 2100 elo engine on one core CPU, and needs atleast 44 cores to be a remotely decent engine. For instance, you would never ever expect it to match Stockfish on a mobile processor. To hell with them right, they need to buy GTX 1080 Ti. Btw did you see its rating of 2300 in TCEC, it is because it almost lost all TCEC games :)
Daniel Shawul wrote:Sigh..wake me up when it is 2800 elo running on singe CPU core, which is what every other engine uses in rating lists. As far as I am concerned, it is still a 2100 elo engine there.
And on and on as a broken record, full thread of your nonsensical "impressions" that you have been repeatedly bringing up already over the other threads only to have them debunked again and again - and yet it clearly doesn't stop you. Sorry but at this point I think you must be trolling.
Anybody who dares to question and wont fall in line is trolling for you ?? Here for instance it is
Claimed LcO is a 2800 elo engine when my tests and also CEGT tests it seems says it is 2100, that is one big question that needs to be addressed. Whether you like it or not that is the fact at the moment.
Meanwhile, your so-called 2100 elo engine is quite matched (right now 2-2) vs. The Baron ON EQUAL HARDWARE at TCEC bonus matches, in 10m+6s TC...
4 games in and you jump to conclusions. Your enthusiasm is so high of LCZero, you try it against Rybka 4.1 and start celebrating after one draw. Anyway, thanks for alerting me to the bonus games. It is still a 2100 elo engine on one core CPU, and needs atleast 44 cores to be a remotely decent engine. For instance, you would never ever expect it to match Stockfish on a mobile processor. To hell with them right, they need to buy GTX 1080 Ti. Btw did you see its rating of 2300 in TCEC, it is because it almost lost all TCEC games :)
LCzero is probably something around 400 elo stronger since TCEC version. Of course you can complain about CPU not as good as GPU , but it's your problem. Everyone knows LCzero is now around 2900 elo but you.
Daniel Shawul wrote:Sigh..wake me up when it is 2800 elo running on singe CPU core, which is what every other engine uses in rating lists. As far as I am concerned, it is still a 2100 elo engine there.
And on and on as a broken record, full thread of your nonsensical "impressions" that you have been repeatedly bringing up already over the other threads only to have them debunked again and again - and yet it clearly doesn't stop you. Sorry but at this point I think you must be trolling.
Anybody who dares to question and wont fall in line is trolling for you ?? Here for instance it is
Claimed LcO is a 2800 elo engine when my tests and also CEGT tests it seems says it is 2100, that is one big question that needs to be addressed. Whether you like it or not that is the fact at the moment.
Meanwhile, your so-called 2100 elo engine is quite matched (right now 2-2) vs. The Baron ON EQUAL HARDWARE at TCEC bonus matches, in 10m+6s TC...
4 games in and you jump to conclusions. Your enthusiasm is so high of LCZero, you try it against Rybka 4.1 and start celebrating after one draw. Anyway, thanks for alerting me to the bonus games. It is still a 2100 elo engine on one core CPU, and needs atleast 44 cores to be a remotely decent engine. For instance, you would never ever expect it to match Stockfish on a mobile processor. To hell with them right, they need to buy GTX 1080 Ti. Btw did you see its rating of 2300 in TCEC, it is because it almost lost all TCEC games :)
LCzero is probably something around 300 elo stronger since TCEC version. Of course you can complain about CPU not as good as GPU , but it's your problem. Everyone knows LCzero is now around 2900 elo but you.
You guys are pretty funny, +300 elo since ID125 right?? Lets see how this short test games ends first...
.
:)