lc0-win-20180512-cuda90-cudnn712-00

[shrapnel]

As a side note, using -t3 and after switching from cudnn-9.2-windows7-x64-v7.14 to cudnn-9.2-windows10-x64-v7.14, I'm getting much better speeds, over 18k, as of now, and over 95 % GPU Utilization.
(I'm using Windows 8.1).
Better and better....

[Milos]

It's a good theory, except that I tested all my PUCT values at 3+0 and 5+0, and then proposed them to GCP. He in turn tested them at very fast TCs, but stopped the test early due to disastrous results.The lower PUCT value was stronger at very short TCs, while the higher PUCT values only shined at longer TCs. Mind you, these CLOP optimized values are not the ones I had hit on, just similar. Here are the two for comparison, though i have not tested the optimized ones to compare.

CLOP

Slowmover: 2.75
cPUCT: 2.8
FPU: -0.08

Mine

Slowmover: 2.0
cPUCT: 3.0
FPU: 0.0

Again, as I said it's an indication of speed not necessarily strength. Try running your set of parameters and default set of parameters with fixed number of nodes and you'll see that higher PUCT values are not so good at all.
Problem is no one has a good clue about what is the best MCTS for chess. It depends on too many things.
AB search has been developed for decades. On the other hand MCTS is still in its infancy and it's current implementation is naive compared to AB. Currently ppl are trying to find the best solution with a single fixed parameter. Ofc it's not gonna work.

[Albert Silver]

Lol, specially tuned. That is just a skin man around regular GPU-Z.

OK. Still, I suppose it's more accurate than just using Windows Task Manager.

Windows task manager shows CPU usage, and doesn't even detect any GPU usage unless is related with Windows Aero theme.
GPU-Z is ok to show GPU usage, but GPU usage itself is for sure not a great correlation of parameter strength.

That's not actually true, but I admit it is well hidden. If you want to see the real GPU usage when running Leela (any build), in Task Manager, go to the Performance tab, then in one of the empty graphs, over them, change the drop-down menu (it is easy to not realize it is one) to Compute_0.

I attached a screenshot to illustrate.

[Albert Silver]

It's a good theory, except that I tested all my PUCT values at 3+0 and 5+0, and then proposed them to GCP. He in turn tested them at very fast TCs, but stopped the test early due to disastrous results.The lower PUCT value was stronger at very short TCs, while the higher PUCT values only shined at longer TCs. Mind you, these CLOP optimized values are not the ones I had hit on, just similar. Here are the two for comparison, though i have not tested the optimized ones to compare.

CLOP

Slowmover: 2.75
cPUCT: 2.8
FPU: -0.08

Mine

Slowmover: 2.0
cPUCT: 3.0
FPU: 0.0

Again, as I said it's an indication of speed not necessarily strength. Try running your set of parameters and default set of parameters with fixed number of nodes and you'll see that higher PUCT values are not so good at all.

I admit I'm pretty confused by this comment. In your first reply, you said it increases the nodes per second, but not necessarily the strength. Fair enough. Now you are telling my to run them with a fixed nodes count? How is that going to illustrate a lack of strength from more nodes??

That said, I am running a practical test, which will take some time. I am running LC0 with default settings and then modded ones against Spike 1.4 and will simply look at the results. Each gauntlet is 1m+1s and takes hundreds of games each so a bit of patience will be needed, but it should help shed some light on whether there are clear-cut gains, a loss of ability, or just nothing that stands out.

[Milos]

OK. Still, I suppose it's more accurate than just using Windows Task Manager.

Windows task manager shows CPU usage, and doesn't even detect any GPU usage unless is related with Windows Aero theme.
GPU-Z is ok to show GPU usage, but GPU usage itself is for sure not a great correlation of parameter strength.

That's not actually true, but I admit it is well hidden. If you want to see the real GPU usage when running Leela (any build), in Task Manager, go to the Performance tab, then in one of the empty graphs, over them, change the drop-down menu (it is easy to not realize it is one) to Compute_0.

I attached a screenshot to illustrate.

What you select as Compute_0 is actually a GPU engine that Task Manager is using to get calculation and that is dependent on the GPU you are using and also it's not there in every version of Task Manager. In may case is Engine 1 that is taking measurements from Lc0 not Engine 0.

[Milos]

It's a good theory, except that I tested all my PUCT values at 3+0 and 5+0, and then proposed them to GCP. He in turn tested them at very fast TCs, but stopped the test early due to disastrous results.The lower PUCT value was stronger at very short TCs, while the higher PUCT values only shined at longer TCs. Mind you, these CLOP optimized values are not the ones I had hit on, just similar. Here are the two for comparison, though i have not tested the optimized ones to compare.

CLOP

Slowmover: 2.75
cPUCT: 2.8
FPU: -0.08

Mine

Slowmover: 2.0
cPUCT: 3.0
FPU: 0.0

Again, as I said it's an indication of speed not necessarily strength. Try running your set of parameters and default set of parameters with fixed number of nodes and you'll see that higher PUCT values are not so good at all.

I admit I'm pretty confused by this comment. In your first reply, you said it increases the nodes per second, but not necessarily the strength. Fair enough. Now you are telling my to run them with a fixed nodes count? How is that going to illustrate a lack of strength from more nodes??

Pretty simple nps gain is kind of fixed, i.e. 20% more nps ~15 more Elo. However, on different TCs you reach different depth and than loss due to higher PUCT value can be more than nps gain so overall net result could be negative.

[Albert Silver]

Again, as I said it's an indication of speed not necessarily strength. Try running your set of parameters and default set of parameters with fixed number of nodes and you'll see that higher PUCT values are not so good at all.

I admit I'm pretty confused by this comment. In your first reply, you said it increases the nodes per second, but not necessarily the strength. Fair enough. Now you are telling my to run them with a fixed nodes count? How is that going to illustrate a lack of strength from more nodes??

Pretty simple nps gain is kind of fixed, i.e. 20% more nps ~15 more Elo. However, on different TCs you reach different depth and than loss due to higher PUCT value can be more than nps gain so overall net result is negative.

Not in my case.

[Milos]

I admit I'm pretty confused by this comment. In your first reply, you said it increases the nodes per second, but not necessarily the strength. Fair enough. Now you are telling my to run them with a fixed nodes count? How is that going to illustrate a lack of strength from more nodes??

Pretty simple nps gain is kind of fixed, i.e. 20% more nps ~15 more Elo. However, on different TCs you reach different depth and than loss due to higher PUCT value can be more than nps gain so overall net result is negative.

Not in my case.

Did you try running at longer TC for example 20s per move fixed Lc0-default parameters vs Lc0-your parameters?

[Albert Silver]

Windows task manager shows CPU usage, and doesn't even detect any GPU usage unless is related with Windows Aero theme.
GPU-Z is ok to show GPU usage, but GPU usage itself is for sure not a great correlation of parameter strength.

That's not actually true, but I admit it is well hidden. If you want to see the real GPU usage when running Leela (any build), in Task Manager, go to the Performance tab, then in one of the empty graphs, over them, change the drop-down menu (it is easy to not realize it is one) to Compute_0.

I attached a screenshot to illustrate.

What you select as Compute_0 is actually a GPU engine that Task Manager is using to get calculation and that is dependent on the GPU you are using and also it's not there in every version of Task Manager. In may case is Engine 1 that is taking measurements from Lc0 not Engine 0.

You can choose Compute_1 instead.

[Milos]

That's not actually true, but I admit it is well hidden. If you want to see the real GPU usage when running Leela (any build), in Task Manager, go to the Performance tab, then in one of the empty graphs, over them, change the drop-down menu (it is easy to not realize it is one) to Compute_0.

I attached a screenshot to illustrate.

What you select as Compute_0 is actually a GPU engine that Task Manager is using to get calculation and that is dependent on the GPU you are using and also it's not there in every version of Task Manager. In may case is Engine 1 that is taking measurements from Lc0 not Engine 0.

You can choose Compute_1 instead.

I use process explorer so there I selected Engine 1.