Something goes wrong with lc0 since yesterday?

[Laskos]

Beating all humans by giving the rules and the goal of Chess and letting it self-play to "understand" what is Chess about and how to play it well, is easy?

The above is of course not easy and has only been achieved in the last few months. beating humans with computers with conventional a/b software is easy in the sense, it has been achieved a long time ago.

Well, Chess is a toy model. Too toyish to talk seriously about human capacities, but until 25 years ago it was considered "a supreme achievement of human brain" by most AI visionary idiots, while my cat knows better.

[Laskos]

They are just demonstrating that using neural networks is inefficient. What can be wrong with that. Maybe less human work but enormous waste of electricity. If there is no knowledge something has to pay. This only holds for training/tuning/configuring part of course.

For small problems it is do-able. But chess is not that small. Be glad with a local optimum.

I don't know what you are babbling. They (the new testserver) showed by yesterday morning that in 500,000 fast self-games in half-a-day, one can train a network to beat 99% of humans, and by yesterday evening, after 1,500,000 fast self-games, in a-day-and-a-half, the network can be trained to beat ALL humans. Now one has to see the limits of this small 6x64 network, and to take care of the training parameters like CPUCT, temperature, expansion parameter, etc. The result seems remarkable to me, and I hope they won't start from scratch again, what's the point? Even with now available hardware resources, they can quickly overcome the main branch.

WTH, they seem to have restarted all over again, although no ratings are given. Are they sick with their "from scratch forever methodology"?

[duncan]

They are just demonstrating that using neural networks is inefficient. What can be wrong with that. Maybe less human work but enormous waste of electricity. If there is no knowledge something has to pay. This only holds for training/tuning/configuring part of course.

For small problems it is do-able. But chess is not that small. Be glad with a local optimum.

I don't know what you are babbling. They (the new testserver) showed by yesterday morning that in 500,000 fast self-games in half-a-day, one can train a network to beat 99% of humans, and by yesterday evening, after 1,500,000 fast self-games, in a-day-and-a-half, the network can be trained to beat ALL humans. Now one has to see the limits of this small 6x64 network, and to take care of the training parameters like CPUCT, temperature, expansion parameter, etc. The result seems remarkable to me, and I hope they won't start from scratch again, what's the point? Even with now available hardware resources, they can quickly overcome the main branch.

WTH, they seem to have restarted all over again, although no ratings are given. Are they sick with their "from scratch forever methodology"?

I look at it this way. Every restart means ao has become 100 elo stronger, so worth waiting for. would you like ao on your gpu to be stronger than alphazero ?

[duncan]

Beating all humans by giving the rules and the goal of Chess and letting it self-play to "understand" what is Chess about and how to play it well, is easy?

The above is of course not easy and has only been achieved in the last few months. beating humans with computers with conventional a/b software is easy in the sense, it has been achieved a long time ago.

Well, Chess is a toy model. Too toyish to talk seriously about human capacities, but until 25 years ago it was considered "a supreme achievement of human brain" by most AI visionary idiots, while my cat knows better.

25 years ago it was not understood that a 7 move search with positional understanding of 2000 elo = world championship play.

[Laskos]

The above is of course not easy and has only been achieved in the last few months. beating humans with computers with conventional a/b software is easy in the sense, it has been achieved a long time ago.

Well, Chess is a toy model. Too toyish to talk seriously about human capacities, but until 25 years ago it was considered "a supreme achievement of human brain" by most AI visionary idiots, while my cat knows better.

25 years ago it was not understood that a 7 move search with positional understanding of 2000 elo = world championship play.

You, as expected, missed the main part of what I said, and that was about the cat.

As for their re-running from scratch, the first run was as good as all the following ones (now sixth !!! one), and as training DCNN goes, it is more an alchemy than a science (not my own statement, it is that of leading specialists), their tunings and re-scratchings are pretty much worthless. If they had continued the first run to saturation, say up to 20x256 nets, I bet they would have gone very far by now as strength goes (if they didn't do something dumb along the way).

[Laskos]

They are just demonstrating that using neural networks is inefficient. What can be wrong with that. Maybe less human work but enormous waste of electricity. If there is no knowledge something has to pay. This only holds for training/tuning/configuring part of course.

For small problems it is do-able. But chess is not that small. Be glad with a local optimum.

I don't know what you are babbling. They (the new testserver) showed by yesterday morning that in 500,000 fast self-games in half-a-day, one can train a network to beat 99% of humans, and by yesterday evening, after 1,500,000 fast self-games, in a-day-and-a-half, the network can be trained to beat ALL humans. Now one has to see the limits of this small 6x64 network, and to take care of the training parameters like CPUCT, temperature, expansion parameter, etc. The result seems remarkable to me, and I hope they won't start from scratch again, what's the point? Even with now available hardware resources, they can quickly overcome the main branch.

WTH, they seem to have restarted all over again, although no ratings are given. Are they sick with their "from scratch forever methodology"?

Just checked the latest ID57 before the latest reset. It came at a record for 6x64 net in this gauntlet 64.5/200. I am curious what they will get in 2-2.5 million fast games using 6x64 nets with their brand new Voodoo training settings.

[Werewolf]

I don't know what you are babbling. They (the new testserver) showed by yesterday morning that in 500,000 fast self-games in half-a-day, one can train a network to beat 99% of humans, and by yesterday evening, after 1,500,000 fast self-games, in a-day-and-a-half, the network can be trained to beat ALL humans. Now one has to see the limits of this small 6x64 network, and to take care of the training parameters like CPUCT, temperature, expansion parameter, etc. The result seems remarkable to me, and I hope they won't start from scratch again, what's the point? Even with now available hardware resources, they can quickly overcome the main branch.

WTH, they seem to have restarted all over again, although no ratings are given. Are they sick with their "from scratch forever methodology"?

Just checked the latest ID57 before the latest reset. It came at a record for 6x64 net in this gauntlet 64.5/200. I am curious what they will get in 2-2.5 million fast games using 6x64 nets with their brand new Voodoo training settings.

After each reset do they play new games or do they use the old games somehow?

[Laskos]

WTH, they seem to have restarted all over again, although no ratings are given. Are they sick with their "from scratch forever methodology"?

Just checked the latest ID57 before the latest reset. It came at a record for 6x64 net in this gauntlet 64.5/200. I am curious what they will get in 2-2.5 million fast games using 6x64 nets with their brand new Voodoo training settings.

After each reset do they play new games or do they use the old games somehow?

New games. Just the training parameters Voodoo tweakings. That is AFAIK. Basically the old games and nets are for the trash bin.

[crem]

There was a bug in versions 20180609 and 20180614, which caused it to miss checkmates sometimes (especially mates in 1).

Update is highly recommended.

[Laskos]

There was a bug in versions 20180609 and 20180614, which caused it to miss checkmates sometimes (especially mates in 1).

Update is highly recommended.

Thanks, I suppose it affected training too, right?
I checked the new net ID1039 with the old 20180614 engine in the same gauntlet against AB engines at short TC, it came at 47.5/200, which is not bad. It remains to see if by say ID1050 it comes to the levels 5th run of ID48 of 60.0/200 or ID57 of 64.5/200 (which was a record high for any 6x64 nets).