Genuine position for endgame play

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Nordlandia
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Genuine position for endgame play

Post by Nordlandia »

Material distribution: ≊ +1 for white.

Code: Select all

5k2/pppb2pp/3pn3/8/8/2P5/PP4PP/R1B1K3 b Q - 0 1
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Nordlandia
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Re: Genuine position for endgame play

Post by Nordlandia »

SF is capable of holding that endgame as black.

TC: 10m+45s

https://lichess.org/Hbb1wDI4
Dann Corbit
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Re: Genuine position for endgame play

Post by Dann Corbit »

Searching: 5k2/pppb2pp/3pn3/8/8/2P5/PP4PP/R1B1K3 b Q - 0 1
infinite: 0 time: 0 increment: 0 moves to go: 0

1 -0.08 00:00 3117 Ke7
2 -0.15 00:00 63580 Ke7 Kf2
3 -0.89 00:00 112428 Bc6 Kf2 Nc5
4 -0.97 00:00 160342 Bc6 Kf2 Nc5 Be3 Nd3+ Kg3
5 -0.91 00:00 263865 Ke7 Be3 Nc5 Kf2 Nd3+ Kg3 Nxb2
6 -0.97 00:00 311874 Bc6 Kf2 Nc5 Be3 Ne4+ Ke2 b6
7 -1.02 00:00 358248 Bc6 Kf2 b6 Be3 a5 Kg3 Kf7 Rf1+ Ke7
8 -0.92 00:00 457379 a5 Be3 a4 Kf2 Bc6 Rd1 Ke7 c4
9 -0.91 00:00 504884 a5 Be3 a4 Kf2 Bc6 Rd1 b5 g4 Kf7 b3
10 -0.95 00:00 550261 a5 Be3 a4 Kf2 Bc6 Rc1 Ke7 c4 Be4 Kg3 Bd3
11 -0.97 00:00 594170 a5 Be3 Bc6 Kf2 a4 Rd1 Ke7 h4 Bb5 b3 Bc6
12 -0.96 00:00 695243 a5 Be3 Bc6 Kf2 Ke7 Rd1 b5 g3 Be4 g4 b4 cxb4 axb4
13 -0.98 00:00 1169K a5 Kf2 Bc6 Be3 Kf7 g4 Bd5 b3 b5 Rd1 c6 Kg3 a4 bxa4 bxa4 Rf1+ Ke7
14 -1.00 00:00 1355K Ke7 Kf2 a5 Be3 a4 Rd1 h6 h4 Bb5 b3 axb3 axb3 Bc6 Kg3
15 -0.98 00:00 1825K a5 Be3 Bc6 Kf2 a4 Rd1 h5 Kg3 Ke7 c4 Kf7 b3 axb3 axb3 b6 Rf1+ Kg6
16 -0.95 00:00 1969K a5 Be3 Bc6 Kf2 h5 b4 axb4 cxb4 Be4 Rd1 Ke7 g4 h4 a4 d5 a5 Kd6
17 -0.96 00:00 3597K Bc6 Kf2 a5 Be3 Ke7 g4 h6 Rd1 g5 Bd4 b5 Kg3 a4 Be3 Be4 h4 c5 hxg5 hxg5
18 -0.94 00:00 3669K Bc6 Kf2 a5 Be3 a4 Rd1 Ke7 g4 Be4 Kg3 b5 b3 h6 Rd2 axb3 axb3 g5 h4
19 -0.91 00:00 4396K Bc6 Kf2 a5 Be3 a4 Rd1 Ke7 g4 Be4 Kg3 b5 b3 h6 Rd2 Kf7 Rf2+ Ke7 b4 Bd5 a3 Bc4 h4
20 -0.96 00:00 7081K a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 a4 g4 Nd8 Kg3 Be6 a3 Nc6 Bd4 Kf7 Re1 Bc4 Kf3 Bd5+ Kf4 h6 h4 Nxd4 cxd4
21 -0.99 00:00 7577K a5 Be3 Bc6 Kf2 a4 Rd1 Ke7 g4 b5 b3 Be4 bxa4 bxa4 Kg3 c6 Rd2 h6 c4 a3 h4 d5 cxd5 cxd5
22 -0.98 00:00 9601K a5 Be3 Bc6 Kf2 a4 b3 b5 g4 Be4 Rd1 Ke7 bxa4 bxa4 h4 h6 Kg3 Kf6 h5 Kf7 a3 Ke7 c4 c6 Rf1
23 -0.99 00:01 14191K a5 Be3 Bc6 Kf2 a4 Rd1 h6 g4 b5 Kg3 Be4 Rd2 d5 h4 Ke7 b3 axb3 axb3 c5 b4 cxb4 cxb4 Kd6 h5 Ke5
24 -1.02 00:03 42741K a5 Be3 Bc6 g3 Ke7 b3 b5 Kd2 g5 Kd3 Be8 Ke4 Bg6+ Kf3 a4 bxa4 bxa4 Rd1 h6 g4 c6 Rd2 d5 Rb2 Kf6 Rb7 Be4+ Kg3 a3
25 -1.05 00:04 55534K a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 Ke7 g4 h6 Kg3 Bc6 b3 a4 Rd1 Be4 Rd2 Kf6 h4 Bc6 bxa4 bxa4 Re2 Bd5 a3 Bc4 Rf2+ Ke5 Rf7
26 -1.05 00:05 72186K a5 Be3 Bc6 Kf2 Bd5 Rd1 Bc6 g4 b5 Kg3 Ke7 h4 h6 Re1 Bd5 b3 a4 Rd1 Be4 Rd2 Kd7 bxa4 bxa4 Rb2 Bd5 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bd5
27 -1.05 00:08 107274K a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 Ke7 g4 h6 Kg3 Bc6 b3 Kd7 h4 Bd5 Rd1 Be4 Rf1 Ke7 Re1 Bd5 Rd1 Be4 Rf1 a4 bxa4 bxa4 Rf2 Bd5
28 -1.06 00:10 136222K a5 Be3 Bc6 Kf2 Ke7 g4 a4 b3 b5 bxa4 bxa4 Rb1 Kf6 Rb4 g5 a3 Ke5 Rb8 Kf6 Rb1 h6 Kg3 Ke5 Re1 Be4 c4 Bd3 Bd2+ Kf6 Bc3+ Kf7
29 -1.06 00:16 220546K a5 Be3 Bc6 g4 b5 Kf2 a4 b3 Ke7 bxa4 bxa4 Rb1 Bd5 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bb3 Ra3 Bc4 g5 Kf7 h4 Kg6 Ra5 Kh5 Kg3 Bb3 Rb5 Bc4 Rb2 Bd5
30 -1.08 00:24 323839K a5 Be3 Bc6 g4 b5 Kf2 a4 b3 Be4 Re1 Kf7 Kg3 Bd3 Rd1 Bc2 Rf1+ Ke7 bxa4 bxa4 Rf2 Bd3 Rb2 Bc4 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bb3 Ra3 Bc4 g5 Kf7 Ra4 Bb3 Ra7 Bd5 h4 Kg6
31 -1.08 00:32 425098K a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 a4 b3 Bc6 g4 Be4 Re1 Ke7 Bd4 Bd5 Bxg7 Kf7 Bh6 axb3 axb3 Nc5 Ke2 Bxb3 Be3 Bc4+ Kd2 Nd7 Ra1 Nf6 Ra7 Nd5 h4 Ke6 g5
32 -1.10 00:48 625260K a5 Be3 Ke7 g4 b5 Kf2 a4 b3 Bc6 bxa4 bxa4 Rb1 Bd5 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bb3 Ra3 Bd5 Ra5 Bc4 g5 Kf7 Kf3 Bb3 h4 Kg6 Ke2 Kh5 Bf2 Kg4 Ra7 Bc4+ Kd2 Kf5
33 -1.07 00:55 715141K a5 Be3 Bc6 g4 h6 Kf2 Ke7 Kg3 a4 b3 axb3 axb3 Bd5 b4 b6 h4 Bc4 g5 h5 Ra7 b5 Ra5 Kf7 Ra8 Kg6 Rh8 Bd5 Kf2 Bc4 Ke1 Bd5 Kd2 Bc4 Kc2 Be2
34 -1.12 01:28 1141M a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 a4 b3 Bc6 g4 Kf7 Kg3 Be4 Re1 Bd3 Rd1 Bc2 Rf1+ Ke7 bxa4 bxa4 Rf2 Bd3 Rb2 Bc4 g5 a3 Rb4 Bxa2 Ra4 Bb1 Rxa3 Kf7 Ra1 Bc2 h4 Kg6 Ra5 Bd1 Kf2
35 -1.12 02:20 1810M a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 Ke8 g4 a4 Kg3 Bc6 Rd1 Kd7 b3 Be4 Rd2 Kc6 h4 Kd7 Rf2 Ke7 bxa4 bxa4 Rb2 Bd5 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bb3 Ra3 Bc4 g5 Kf7 Ra4 Bb3 Ra5 Kg6 Kf3 Bc2
36 -1.15 03:32 2706M a5 Be3 Ke7 g4 a4 Kd2 h6 Re1 Bb5 b3 axb3 axb3 Bc6 g5 h5 h4 b5 Bd4 Kd7 Rf1 Bd5 b4 c5 Be3 Kc6 Ra1 Bc4 Ra6+ Kd5 Ra7 Kc6 g6 Bd5 Re7 Bc4 Kc2 Bd5 bxc5
37 -1.08 04:11 3203M a5 Be3 Ke7 g4 Bc6 g5 a4 b3 Kf7 c4 axb3 axb3 b5 cxb5 Bxb5 b4 Kg6 Kd2 Kh5 Rg1 Bc4 Kc3 Bb5 Kc2 Ba4+ Kd3 Be8 Kc4 Bc6 Rf1 Kg6 Kc3 Bg2 Ra1 Kh5 Rg1 Be4 Rf1 Bg6 Re1
38 -1.14 05:47 4428M a5 Be3 Ke7 g4 b5 Kf2 Kf6 Kg3 Bc6 h4 a4 Rf1+ Ke7 b3 Bd5 Rd1 Be4 Rd2 Kd7 bxa4 bxa4 Rb2 Bd5 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bd5 g5 Bb3 Rb4 Bd1 Rb7 Ke7 Ra7 Kd7 Ra5 Kc6 Ra8 Kd7 Rh8
39 -1.14 05:54 4505M a5 Be3 Ke7 g4 b5 Kf2 Kf6 Kg3 Bc6 h4 a4 Rf1+ Ke7 b3 Bd5 Rd1 Be4 Rd2 Kd7 bxa4 bxa4 Rb2 Bd5 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bd5 g5 Bb3 Rb4 Bd1 Rb7 Ke7 Ra7 Kd7 Ra5 Bc2 Ra3 Bd1 Ra7 Bc2
40 -1.14 05:56 4539M a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 Ke8 g4 a4 Kg3 Bc6 Rd1 Kd7 b3 Be4 Rd2 Kc6 h4 Bd5 Rb2 Kd7 bxa4 bxa4 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bd5 g5 Bb3 Rb4 Bd1 Rb7 Ke7 Ra7 Kd7 Ra5 Bc2 Ra3 Bd1 Ra7 Bc2 Kf3 Bd3 Ra5 Nd8 Ra8 Ne6
41 -1.14 06:16 4783M a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 Ke8 g4 a4 Kg3 Bc6 Rd1 Kd7 b3 Be4 Rd2 Kc6 h4 Bd5 Rb2 Kd7 bxa4 bxa4 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bd5 g5 Bb3 Rb4 Bd1 Rb7 Ke7 Ra7 Kd7 Ra5 Bc2 Ra3 Bd1 Ra7 Bc2 Kf3 Bd3 Ra5 Nd8 Ra8
42 -1.14 06:44 5121M a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 Ke8 g4 a4 Kg3 Bc6 Rd1 Kd7 b3 Be4 Rd2 Kc6 h4 Bd5 Rb2 Kd7 bxa4 bxa4 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bd5 g5 Bb3 Rb4 Bd1 Rb8 Ke7 Rh8 Bc2 Ra8 Kd7 Kf3 Bb3 Rb8 Bd1+ Kf2 Ke7 Rb1 Ba4 Kg3 Bc6 Rb2
43 -1.14 07:37 5765M a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 Ke8 g4 a4 Kg3 Bc6 Rd1 Kd7 b3 Be4 Rd2 Kc6 h4 Bd5 Rb2 Kd7 bxa4 bxa4 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bd5 g5 Bb3 Rb4 Bd1 Rb8 Ke7 Rh8 Bc2 Ra8 Kd7 Kf3 Bb3 Kf2 Ke7 Ra3 Bd5 Ra4 Bc6 Rb4 Bd7 Kg3
44 -1.14 08:27 6363M a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 Ke8 g4 a4 Kg3 Bc6 Rd1 Kd7 h4 Be4 Rd2 Kc6 b3 Bd5 Rb2 Kd7 bxa4 bxa4 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bd5 g5 Bb3 Rb4 Bd1 Rb8 Ke7 Rh8 Bc2 Ra8 Kd7 Ra2 Bd1 Ra1 Bh5 Ra7 Kc6 Ra5 Bd1 Ra8 Bb3
45 -1.14 08:54 6710M a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 Ke8 g4 a4 Kg3 Bc6 Rd1 Kd7 h4 Be4 Rd2 Kc6 b3 Bd5 Rb2 Kd7 bxa4 bxa4 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bd5 g5 Bb3 Rb4 Bd1 Rb8 Ke7 Rh8 Bc2 Ra8 Kd7 Ra2 Bd1 Ra1 Bh5 Ra7 Kc6 Ra5 Bd1 Ra8 Bb3 Rh8 Bc2 Re8
46 -1.14 09:33 7186M a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 Ke8 g4 a4 Kg3 Bc6 Rd1 Kd7 h4 Be4 Rd2 Kc6 b3 Bd5 Rb2 Kd7 bxa4 bxa4 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bd5 g5 Bb3 Rb4 Bd1 Rb8 Ke7 Rh8 Bc2 Ra8 Kd7 Ra2 Bd1 Ra1 Bh5 Ra7 Kc6 Ra5 Be2 Ra8 Kd7 Rh8 Bd3 Kf3 Bc2
47 -1.14 13:24 10117M a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 Ke7 g4 Bc8 Kg3 a4 Rd1 Bb7 h4 Be4 Rd2 Kd7 b3 Kc6 bxa4 bxa4 Rb2 Bd5 g5 Kd7 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bb3 Rb4 Bd1 Rb8 Bc2 Ra8 Bb3 Rh8 Bc2 Rb8 Kc6 Kg4 Bd1+ Kf5 Kd7 Rb2 Bh5 Ra2 Ke7 Ke4 Kd7 Ra1 Bg6+ Kf3 Bh5+ Kg3 Kc6 Ra5
48 -1.14 15:02 11362M a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 Ke7 g4 Bc8 Kg3 a4 Rd1 Bb7 h4 Be4 Rd2 Kd7 b3 Kc6 bxa4 bxa4 Rb2 Bd5 g5 Kd7 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bb3 Rb4 Bd1 Rb8 Bc2 Ra8 Bb3 Rh8 Bc2 Rb8 Kc6 Kg4 Bd1+ Kf5 Kd7 Rb2 Bh5 Ra2 Ke7 Ke4 Kd7 Ra1 Bg6+ Kf3 Bh5+ Kf2 Ke7 Kg3 Be2
49 -1.14 17:40 13311M a5 Be3 b5 Kf2 Ke7 g4 Bc8 Kg3 a4 Rd1 Bb7 h4 Be4 Rd2 Kd7 b3 Kc6 bxa4 bxa4 Rb2 Bd5 g5 Kd7 Rb4 Bxa2 Rxa4 Bb3 Rb4 Bd1 Rb8 Bc2 Ra8 Bb3 Rh8 Bc2 Rb8 Kc6 Ra8 Be4 Kg4 Bd3 Rb8 Be2+ Kg3 Bd3 Rg8 Kd7 Ra8 Bg6 Kg4
50 -1.22 30:00 22691M a5 Be3
Nodes: 22691047199
Nodes/second: 12606116
Best move: a5
Ponder move: Be3

Score fell again at ply 50, so it does not seem a certain fortress.
I will try it at longer time control at some point.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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Nordlandia
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Re: Genuine position for endgame play

Post by Nordlandia »

Hello Dann Corbit

Once you have time, launch a long TC game between SF Dev as white against latest Komodo or Houdini. Remember it's important to degrade H contemt to 0.
tpoppins
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Re: Genuine position for endgame play

Post by tpoppins »

Done after multiPV=2 analysis till d=43 without clearing hash.

Code: Select all

Analysis by asmFish 9 (8GB hash, 5-men Syzygy):

1...Bc6 2.Be3 a6 3.g4 Ke7 4.b3 b5 5.h4 Kd7 6.Kd2 Bd5 7.g5 Nd8 8.Rf1 Ke8 9.Bd4 g6 10.b4 Ne6 11.Ke3 Bg2 12.Ra1 Bc6 13.Rd1 Kf7 14.Rb1 Ke7 15.Bf6+ Kf7 16.Re1 Ke8 17.Kf2 Kd7 18.Kg3 Bd5 19.Ra1 Bc6 20.Rd1 Kc8 21.Rf1 Bd5 22.Ra1 Bc6 
  +/- (1.07)  Depth: 43/43   00:00:11  477MN, tb=2185
1...Bc6 2.Be3 a6 3.g4 Ke7 4.b3 b5 5.h4 Kd7 6.Ke2 Be4 7.Kf2 Bd5 8.Rd1 Kc6 9.Bd4 g6 10.Rf1 Kd7 11.Kg3 Ke7 12.Rd1 Be4 13.b4 Kd7 14.Be3 Ke8 15.Bg5 Kd7 16.Rd2 Bc6 17.Be3 Be4 18.Bh6 Ke8 19.Kf2 Kd7 20.Rd1 Bc6 21.Kg3 Ke7 22.Bg5+ Ke8 23.Rf1 
  +/- (1.10)  Depth: 44/58   00:05:00  13506MN, tb=269694
1...Bc6 2.Be3 a6 3.g4 Ke7 4.b3 Bf3 5.h3 Bc6 6.Kf2 b5 7.b4 Bd5 8.h4 Bc6 9.Kg3 g6 10.Rd1 Be4 11.Bg5+ Ke8 12.Kf2 Kd7 13.Be3 Kc6 14.Bh6 Bd5 15.Rd2 Be4 16.Kg3 Kd7 17.Be3 Ke7 18.Rd1 Bc6 19.Bg5+ Ke8 20.Bh6 Be4 21.Re1 Bd5 22.a3 Ke7 23.Be3 Bc4 
  +/- (1.10)  Depth: 45/45   00:05:07  13827MN, tb=272669
[...]
1...Bc6 2.Be3 a6 3.g4 Ke7 4.b3 Bf3 5.h3 Bc6 6.Kf2 b5 7.b4 Bd7 8.Rd1 Bc6 9.Kg3 Be4 10.h4 Kd7 11.Rd2 g6 12.Re2 Bd3 13.Rf2 Ke8 14.h5 g5 15.Rf6 Kd7 16.Rf7+ Ke8 17.Rf2 Be4 18.Rf6 Ke7 19.Rh6 Kd7 20.Kf2 Ke7 21.Bd4 Bb1 22.Kf3 Kd7 23.Be3 Bd3 24.Bd2 Ke7 25.Kg3 Be4 26.Kf2 Kf7 27.Ke3 
  +/- (1.10)  Depth: 50/52   00:08:22  22580MN, tb=485026
1...Bc6 2.Be3 a6 3.g4 Ke7 4.b3 Bf3 5.h3 Bc6 6.Kf2 b5 7.b4 Bd7 8.Rd1 Bc6 9.Kg3 Be4 10.h4 Kd7 11.Rd2 Ke7 12.Re2 Kd7 13.h5 g5 14.hxg6 Bxg6 15.Rf2 Kc6 16.Rd2 Be8 17.Rd1 Bf7 18.Bh6 Nd8 19.Rd2 Ne6 20.Kf3 Bg6 21.Be3 Kb7 22.Kg3 Kc6 23.g5 Kd7 24.Kg4 Nd8 25.Rf2 Ne6 26.Rf6 Ke7 27.a3 
  +/- (1.13)  Depth: 51/68   00:29:07  79077MN, tb=3595603
[...]
1...Bc6 2.Be3 a6 3.g4 Ke7 4.b3 Bf3 5.h3 Bc6 6.Kf2 a5 7.h4 a4 8.Rf1 b6 9.Ke2 axb3 10.axb3 b5 11.b4 Bd5 12.Rd1 Bb3 13.Rd2 Kf6 14.Kf3 Ke7 15.Kg3 Bc4 16.g5 Bb3 17.h5 Bc4 18.Kh4 Kd7 19.Rf2 Ke7 20.Kg4 Bd3 21.Bd4 Ke8 22.Kh4 Ke7 23.Rd2 Bc4 24.Kg4 Bb3 25.Be3 Bc4 26.Rb2 Bd3 27.Rf2 Kd7 28.Rd2 Be4 29.Kg3 Ke7 30.Rd1 Kd7 31.Kg4 Ke7 32.Ra1 
  +/- (1.13)  Depth: 60/64   01:13:38  201594MN, tb=12920613
The eval increase appears to be negligible.
Tirsa Poppins
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Dann Corbit
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Re: Genuine position for endgame play

Post by Dann Corbit »

After several analysis runs, it is still not totally clear to me that it is drawn.
Ke7 and a5 seem the most promising ways to try to hold.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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Nordlandia
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Re: Genuine position for endgame play

Post by Nordlandia »

What about this FEN:

5k2/pppb2pp/3p1b2/8/8/2P5/PP4PP/R1B1K3 w - - 0 1
peter
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Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Genuine position for endgame play

Post by peter »

Hi Jon!
Nordlandia wrote: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:23 pm Hello Dann Corbit

Once you have time, launch a long TC game between SF Dev as white against latest Komodo or Houdini. Remember it's important to degrade H contemt to 0.
Had a more modern way:
Komodo 12.1.1 default- Backward of Dann's longest output- line with full Syzgys loaded, stored 8G hash, restarted komodo in M(CTS)- mode, reloaded hash and did let it run with 8G more MCTS- hash:

5k2/pppb2pp/3pn3/8/8/2P5/PP4PP/R1B1K3 b Q -

Engine: Komodo 12.1.1 64-bitM (8192 MB)
von Don Dailey, Larry Kaufman, Mark Lefler

38 69:48 +1.13 1...b5 2.b3 Ke7 3.c4 a6 4.Kd2 g5
5.Lb2 Lc6 6.g4 bxc4 7.bxc4 Lf3 8.Tg1 (81.138.552) 19

38 69:48 +1.13 1...c5 2.b3 Lc6 3.g3 Ke7 4.h4 Kd7
5.Kd2 a5 6.Kd3 Lg2 7.c4 b5 8.Lb2 bxc4+
9.bxc4 d5 10.cxd5 Lxd5 (81.138.552) 19

38 69:48 +1.13 1...Ke7 2.g3 b5 3.b3 a6 4.Le3 h6
5.Kd2 c5 6.b4 Le8 7.Tb1 Kd7 8.g4 h5
9.Tg1 hxg4 10.Txg4 Lh5 11.Tg1 (81.138.552) 19

38 69:48 +1.13 1...a6 2.c4 Lc6 3.g3 g5 4.Kd2 g4
5.Ke3 Ke7 6.b4 h5 7.a4 Sg5 8.b5 Ld7
9.Lb2 a5 (81.138.552) 19

38 69:48 +1.13 1...Lc6 2.g3 a6 3.c4 g5 4.Kd2 g4
5.Kd3 Ke7 6.b4 b6 7.Ld2 Kd7 (81.138.552) 19

38 69:48 +1.13 1...a5 2.c4 b5 3.b3 Ke7 4.Kd2 b4
5.g3 Le8 6.h4 h6 7.Ke3 h5 8.Lb2 a4
9.bxa4 Lxa4 10.a3 Lb3 11.axb4 (81.138.552) 19

38 69:48 +1.14 1...Kf7 2.b3 Lc6 3.g4 b5 4.c4 Ke7
5.Le3 a5 6.Kd2 bxc4 7.bxc4 Lf3 8.h3 (81.138.552) 19

38 69:48 +1.14 1...g5 2.Le3 a6 3.Kd2 Kf7 4.b3 Lc6
5.Tf1+ Kg6 6.Tf2 b6 7.Kd3 (81.138.552) 19

38 69:48 +1.14 1...Ke8 2.b3 Lc6 3.g3 g5 4.c4 g4
5.Kd2 Lf3 6.Kc3 b6 7.Le3 (81.138.552) 19

38 69:48 +1.15 1...b6 2.c4 Lc6 3.g3 g5 4.b3 Kg7
5.Kd2 Kg6 6.Lb2 (81.138.552) 19

38 69:48 +1.16 1...h6 2.c4 Ke7 3.b3 a5 4.g3 b5
5.Kd2 bxc4 6.bxc4 (81.138.552) 19

38 69:48 +1.16 1...Le8 2.c4 b5 3.cxb5 Lxb5 4.b4 Lc6
5.Kf2 Kf7 6.a3 a6 (81.138.552) 19

0.00 can't be expected, that's not even any fortress, it's simply one of those very long-way drawn endgames. Engines for both sides will try to avoid 7some positions as long as possible, those are drawn then still but the way to them is practically as long as 50 moves rule allows.
Peter.
Dann Corbit
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Re: Genuine position for endgame play

Post by Dann Corbit »

Nordlandia wrote: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:59 pm What about this FEN:

5k2/pppb2pp/3p1b2/8/8/2P5/PP4PP/R1B1K3 w - - 0 1
5k2/pppb2pp/3p1b2/8/8/2P5/PP4PP/R1B1K3 w - - acd 43; acs 7080; bm Be3; ce 93; pm Be3; pv Be3;

Code: Select all

2                      
    Avoid move: 
    Best move (Komodo-12.1.1-64bit): Bc1-e3
    Not found in: 1:58:20
     21+	00:01	  15,947,554	10,222,145	+0.81	Be3 a6 Kd2
     21-	00:02	  23,289,391	10,222,967	+0.77	Be3 a6
     21+	00:02	  26,597,828	10,221,424	+0.82	Be3 a6 Kf2
     21-	00:02	  28,866,796	10,214,071	+0.75	Be3 a6
     21+	00:03	  32,751,545	10,151,729	+0.85	Be3 a6 Kf2
     21	00:03	  34,457,760	10,133,995	+0.80	Be3 a6 Kf2 Be6 Bd4 Bh4+ g3 Bd8 b4 b6 a4 Bc4 b5 axb5 axb5 Bxb5 Ra8 Ke7 Ra7 Ke6 Bxg7 Bc4 Bh6 Kf5 Ra8
     22	00:03	  36,773,163	10,138,086	+0.81	Be3 a6 Kf2 Be6 Bd4 Bh4+ g3 Bd8 a4 c5 Be3 Bb3 Ra3 Bd5 b4 Be7 Ra1 Kf7 a5 g5 Re1 h5 Rd1 Bb3 Re1
     23	00:04	  44,179,604	10,155,589	+0.76	Be3 a6 Kd2 Be6 b4 b6 a4 Bc4 a5 b5 Bd4 Bg5+ Kc2 g6 Re1 Kf7 g3 Be7 Re4 Bd5 Re2 h5 h4 c5 bxc5 dxc5 Be5
     24	00:07	  71,893,068	10,198,400	+0.77	Be3 a6 Kd2 Be6 b4 Bc4 a4 b6 a5 b5 Bd4 Be7 Kc2 Kf7 Re1 g6 Ba7 Bg5 Bb8 Bd8 Re3 h6 h3 h5
     25-	00:11	 113,713,015	10,164,103	+0.71	Be3 a6
     25+	00:14	 149,209,922	10,156,602	+0.75	Be3 a6 Ke2
     25	00:15	 156,896,329	10,172,236	+0.72	Be3 a6 Ke2 c5 Bf4 Ke7 Kf2 g5 Bg3 Be6 Rd1 d5 Re1 Kd7 Be5 Be7 Bg7 Bf5 g3 b5 Re5 Be4 Ke3 g4 b3 Bd6 Rg5 Kc6 Rxg4
     26+	00:17	 175,866,704	10,179,773	+0.78	Be3 a6 Bd4
     26-	00:18	 191,462,837	10,183,549	+0.74	Be3 a6
     26	00:22	 230,361,952	10,165,823	+0.69	Be3 a6 Bd4 Bg5 Kf2 Be6 a3 Bb3 Be3 Be7 Re1 c5 Bf4 g5 Bg3 h5 h3 Kf7 Bh2 b5 Re2 Bc4 Re3 Be6 b4 Bb3 g4 hxg4
     27+	00:24	 252,816,182	10,173,455	+0.75	Be3 a6 Bd4
     27-	00:26	 273,965,500	10,167,693	+0.71	Be3 a6
     27+	00:29	 296,234,223	10,172,584	+0.76	Be3 a6 g3
     27	00:30	 312,028,282	10,166,456	+0.77	Be3 a6 g3 Be6 a3 c5 Kd2 b6 b4 Ke8 bxc5 dxc5 a4 Kd7 a5 Kc6 axb6 Kxb6 Re1 Bf5 Bf4 a5 h4 g6 Be5 Bxe5 Rxe5 a4 Re8 Kb5 Ra8 h6
     28-	00:31	 323,622,106	10,146,160	+0.71	Be3 a6
     28+	00:38	 393,428,084	10,145,271	+0.75	Be3 a6 g3
     28+	00:43	 435,708,066	10,133,990	+0.86	Be3 a6 g3
     28-	00:43	 437,928,659	10,132,843	+0.79	Be3 a6
     28	00:46	 471,020,686	10,146,511	+0.74	Be3 a6 g3 Be6 Kd2 Ke8 Bd4 Bg5+ Ke2 g6 h4 Be7 Ke3 c5 Bg7 h5 Kf4 Kf7 Bh8 Bf8 Kg5 Be7+ Kh6 Bf8+ Kh7 d5 Rf1+ Bf5 Be5 Ke6 Bc7 d4 Bb6
     29+	00:48	 495,567,060	10,148,805	+0.80	Be3 a6 g3
     29-	00:51	 517,975,171	10,157,526	+0.76	Be3 a6
     29	01:50	1,113,209,828	10,055,914	+0.68	Be3 a6 Ke2 Kf7 Bd4 Bg5 Rf1+ Kg6 Re1 Kf7 Be3 Bf6 Kd2 b5 b3 Bf5 Rf1 Kg6 g3 Bh3 Rf2 c5 Bf4 d5 Bd6 d4 cxd4 Bxd4 Rf4 Be6
     30+	01:52	1,128,879,832	10,058,350	+0.74	Be3 a6 g3
     30	01:55	1,157,312,785	10,059,016	+0.75	Be3 a6 g3 Be6 a4 g6 Kd2 Ke8 b4 Bc4 a5 Kd7 Bd4 Be7 Re1 Bg5+ Kc2 h5 Re4 Be7 Bg7 Be6 Re1 h4 Rf1 Bg5 gxh4 Bxh4 Rg1 Be7 c4 Bxc4
     31	02:09	1,306,162,090	10,072,799	+0.75	Be3 a6 g3 Be6 a4 g6 Bd4 Be7 Kd2 Ke8 b4 Bc4 Re1 Kd7 a5 Bg5+ Be3 Bf6 Kc2 Be7 Bd4 h5 Bg7 Bd8 Re4 Be6 Re3 Be7 Kd3 c5 bxc5 dxc5 Ke4 Bd6
     32-	03:01	1,834,057,691	10,087,133	+0.69	Be3 a6
     32+	03:06	1,885,250,119	10,089,222	+0.73	Be3 a6 g3
     32	03:51	2,331,918,943	10,065,533	+0.70	Be3 a6 Bd4 Bg5 Kf2 Be6 Be3 Bh4+ g3 Be7 a4 Kf7 Ke2 c5 b4 Bc4+ Kd2 Ke6 Re1 Kd7 bxc5 dxc5 h4 b5 axb5 axb5 Bg5 Bd6 Bf4 Bf8 Kc2 Be7 Bc7 h6 Bb6 Bd6 Rd1
     33	06:19	3,842,575,797	10,131,505	+0.71	Be3 a6 g3 g6 Bd4 Be7 Kd2 Be6 a4 Ke8 b4 Kd7 Rf1 Bc4 Rf2 b5 axb5 axb5 Bf6 Bf8 g4 c6 g5 c5 Rf4 h5 Rf2 Kc6 h4 Kd7 Ke3 Kc6 Rf4 Kd7 Kf3 Kc6
     34	06:50	4,159,287,336	10,134,766	+0.72	Be3 a6 g3 g6 Bd4 Be7 Kd2 h5 b4 Be6 a4 Ke8 a5 Kd7 Bg7 h4 Ke3 Bg5+ Kd4 Be7 Rd1 Bg4 Rb1 Bf5 Re1 Be6 c4 c5+ bxc5 dxc5+ Kc3 Bf5 gxh4 Bxh4 Rd1+ Kc6 Kb3 b5 axb6
     35	07:39	4,653,877,640	10,136,339	+0.67	Be3 a6 g3 Be6 Bd4 Bd8 b4 b6 Kd2 c5 bxc5 bxc5 Be3 Ke8 Rb1 Bxa2 Rb7 Be7 h4 h6 Kd3 Be6 Ra7 Bf5+ Kd2 a5 Rxa5 Kd7 Ra6 g5 hxg5 hxg5 c4 Bd8 Kc3 Bf6+ Kb3 Be6 Bd2 d5
     36	09:39	5,869,927,853	10,120,937	+0.68	Be3 a6 Bd4 Bg5 Kf2 Be6 Kg3 c5 h4 Bh6 Bg1 Ke7 Bh2 g6 Kf3 Bd5+ Kf2 Bf8 g4 Be6 g5 Kd7 Bf4 Bd5 Ke3 Be6 a3 Bf5 Rd1 Kc6 Re1 d5 Be5 Be7 a4 Bc2 Rf1 Bf5 Bf6
     37	12:04	7,327,787,581	10,119,858	+0.72	Be3 a6 g3 Be6 Kd2 Ke8 b4 h5 Bd4 Bg5+ Kc2 g6 a4 Be7 Re1 Kd7 a5 c5 Be3 h4 bxc5 hxg3 hxg3 dxc5 Bf4 Bd8 Rd1+ Ke8 Be3 Bxa5 Bxc5 Bc7 Bd6 Bb6 Bf4 Kf7 Rf1 Bh3 Re1 Bf2 Re2 Bf5+ Kb3 Bc5
     38-	20:39	12,631,199,255	10,193,460	+0.66	Be3 a6
     38	21:35	13,197,689,248	10,191,164	+0.67	Be3 a6 g3 g6 Bd4 Be7 b4 Bf5 a4 Ke8 Ke2 c5 bxc5 dxc5 Be5 Kd7 c4 Ke6 Bc3 Kd7 Bg7 h5 Kd2 Bd6 Kc3 Kc6 Re1 Bc7 Re8 b5 cxb5+ axb5 axb5+ Kxb5 Be5 Ba5+ Kb2 Bb4 Bc3 Kc4 Bxb4 cxb4 Re7
     39+	26:36	16,290,378,942	10,203,117	+0.73	Be3 a6 Kf2
     39-	30:58	19,004,223,884	10,223,785	+0.69	Be3 a6
     39	50:06	30,850,201,849	10,259,860	+0.68	Be3 a6 g3 g6 Bd4 Be7 Kd2 h5 b4 Be6 a4 Ke8 Rf1 b5 axb5 axb5 h4 Bc4 Rf2 Kd7 Be3 Ke8 Bh6 Be6 Rf4 Bf5 Bg5 Bf8 Rf1 Be6 Re1 Kd7 Bf6 Bh6+ Kc2 Bf5+ Kb2 Be6 Re4 Bf8 Re3 Bc4 Kc2 Be6 Re1 Bf5+ Kd2 Be6 Kc1 Bf5
     40	55:58	34,515,624,207	10,277,051	+0.67	Be3 a6 g3 g6 Bd4 Be7 Kd2 h5 b4 Be6 a4 Ke8 Rf1 b5 axb5 axb5 h4 Bc4 Rf2 Bf8 Rf6 Bf7 Rf1 Bc4 Ra1 Kd7 Ra8 Be7 Rh8 c5 Be3 Ke6 Re8 Kd7 Rb8 cxb4 Rb7+ Ke6 cxb4 Bf6 Bf4 Kf5 Bxd6 Kg4
     41	1:18:07	47,833,527,755	10,204,354	+0.65	Be3 a6 g3 g6 Bd4 Be7 Kd2 Be6 a4 Ke8 b4 h5 h4 Bf5 c4 Kd7 Kc3 c5 bxc5 dxc5 Be5 Kc6 Re1 Bg4 Rf1 Bf5 Rd1 b6 Re1 Bd8 Ra1 Be6 Rd1 Be7 Re1 Bd8 Ra1 Bg4 Rf1 Bf5 Rf2 Be7 Rb2 Bg4
   6/26/2018 9:59:37 PM, Time for this analysis: 01:58:20, Rated time: 3:56:40

Code: Select all

 2                      
    Avoid move: 
    Best move (Matefinder-x64-mingw): Bc1-e3
    Not found in: 1:58:20
    21/35	00:02	  31,433,463	13,042,930	+1.07	Be3 a6 Kd2 Kf7 Rf1 Ke7 Bd4 Bg5+ Kc2 g6 Re1+ Kf7 g3 Bf5+ Kb3 Be7 Be3 Be6+ Ka3 g5 b3 Bh3 Ka4 b6 Bd4 c5 Bh8 Bd7+ Ka3 b5 c4 b4+ Kb2
    22/34	00:04	  55,954,535	13,021,767	+1.08	Be3 a6 Bd4 Bg5 Kf2 c5 Be3 Be7 Rd1 Bg4 Rd2 Be6 Bf4 d5 Be5 Kf7 Rd1 b5 b3 g5 Ra1 h5 Rf1 g4 Ke3+ Kg6 g3
    23/30	00:04	  60,488,844	12,974,870	+1.06	Be3 a6 Kf2 Kf7 Bd4 Bh4+ g3 Be7 Rf1 g5 c4 b5 cxb5 axb5 Ke3+ Kg6 Bc3 Be6 a3 g4 Ke4 Bc4 Rf2 Be6
    24/28	00:06	  84,857,696	12,820,319	+1.02	Be3 a6 g3 Kf7 h4 Be6 Bd4 Bd8 Kd2 c5 Be3 h6 b4 b6 a4 a5 bxa5 bxa5 Rb1 Bd7 Rb8 Ke7 Rb7 Ke6 Kd3
    25/36	00:08	 103,355,284	12,820,055	+1.05	Be3 a6 g3 Kf7 Bd4 Be7 Kd2 Bh3 Be3 c5 b4 Ke6 Re1 Kd7 a4 cxb4 cxb4 Bf6 Kc2 Bf5+ Kb3 Be6+ Ka3 d5 Bc5 Bc3 Rd1 Kc6 Bd4
    26/42	00:10	 130,517,858	12,819,748	+1.07	Be3 a6 g3 Be6 Kd2 c5 a3 b6 b4 Ke8 bxc5 dxc5 a4 a5 Bf4 Kd7 Kc2 Bf5+ Kb2 Kc6 Rd1 c4 Re1 Bd7 Be5 Bxe5 Rxe5 Kd6 Re4 Kc5 Re7
    27/39	00:13	 173,119,709	12,726,583	+1.00	Be3 a6 g3 Be6 h4 h6 Bd4 Bd8 b4 b6 Kd2 c5 Rf1+ Bf7 Be3 Ke8 a4 a5 Bf4 Bc4 Rb1 Kd7 bxa5 bxa5 Rb8 Bc7 Rh8
    28/42	00:41	 525,056,951	12,547,362	+1.02	Be3 a6 Bd4 Bg5 Kf2 c5 Be3 Bh4+ g3 Be7 a4 a5 b3 Bf5 Rc1 Kf7 h4 d5 Bf4 c4 bxc4 dxc4 Bc7 Bd7 Ra1 Bc5+ Kf3 b6 g4 Kg6 Be5 Kf7 h5
    29/48	00:53	 675,558,415	12,543,791	+1.05	Be3 a6 g3 Be6 h4 h6 Bd4 Bd8 b4 b6 Kd2 c5 Rf1+ Bf7 Be3 Ke7 a4 a5 Kc2 Bc4 Rf4 Be6 Bd2 d5 Rf1 Kd7 b5 g5 hxg5 hxg5 Be3 Bc7 Rg1 g4 Bf4 Bd6 Bxd6 Bf5+ Kb3 Kxd6
    30/43	00:55	 692,429,986	12,546,521	+1.07	Be3 a6 g3 Be6 h4 h6 Bd4 Bd8 b4 b6 Kd2 c5 Rf1+ Bf7 Be3 Ke7 bxc5 bxc5 a3 Bc4 Rb1 Bb5 g4 Ke6 Re1 Kd5 g5 Kc4 gxh6 gxh6 Bxh6
    31/36	01:01	 769,752,568	12,488,482	+1.04	Be3 a6 g3 Be6 h4 h6 Bd4 Bd8 b4 b6 Kd2 c5 Rf1+ Bf7 Be3 Ke7 bxc5 bxc5 a3 Bc4 Rb1 Bb5 g4 Ke6 g5 hxg5 Bxg5 Bxg5+ hxg5 g6 Re1+ Kf5 Re7 Bc4 Rd7 d5
    32/46	01:43	1,288,127,303	12,458,072	+0.98	Be3 a6 g3 g5 Bd4 Be7 Kd2 Kf7 a4 c5 Bh8 d5 Rf1+ Kg6 Re1 Kf7 Re5 Be6 b3 Bf8 Re1 Be7 Rf1+ Kg6 Be5 g4 Bc7 Bf5 c4 Be4 Ke3 Bf6 Bd6 Bd4+ Kf4 Bc2 Rc1 Bxb3 cxd5 Bxd5 Bxc5
    33/47	03:30	2,605,264,481	12,397,520	+1.00	Be3 a6 g3 b5 h4 h6 Kf2 Kf7 Bd4 Be7 Rf1 c5 Kg2+ Kg8 Re1 Bd8 Be3 Kf7 Rf1+ Ke8 Kf3 Be7 Rd1 Bc6+ Kg4 Kf7 b4 Bd7+ Kh5 Be8 Re1 Kf6+ Kg4 Bd7+ Kf3 Kf7 h5 Bc6+ Kg4 Bd7+ Kf4 Bf6 bxc5
    34/47	04:59	3,707,949,773	12,373,113	+0.92	Be3 a6 g3 b5 h4 h6 Kf2 Be7 Kf3 c5 b4 Kf7 Rf1 Be6 a3 Bb3 Re1 Bf6 Rc1 Bd5+ Kf2 Be7 Re1 Bc6 h5 Bd5 Ra1 Bb3 g4 Bh4+ Kf3 Bd5+ Ke2 Bf6 bxc5 dxc5 Bxc5 Bxc3 Rf1+ Ke6
    35/48	08:29	6,296,208,421	12,362,717	+0.93	Be3 a6 a4 Kf7 g3 c5 h4 Bg4 Kd2 h6 Rf1 Bh3 Rf2 Bd7 a5 Ke6 Re2 Kd5 Bf4 Bb5 Re1 Bd7 Ke3 Kc6 Kf2 Bg4 Re8 d5 Rf8 d4 Rf7 dxc3 bxc3 Bxc3 Rc7+ Kd5 Be3
    36/46	09:17	6,900,115,741	12,370,964	+0.99	Be3 a6 a4 Kf7 g3 c5 h4 Bg4 a5 Ke6 Kd2 h6 Rf1 Bf5 Rd1 Bg4 Ra1 Bh3 Rh1 Bg4 Bf4 Kd7 Rf1 Bd8 b4 Kc6 Kc2 Bf5+ Kb2 Bd3 Rd1 c4 Be3 Bf6 Bd4 Bxd4 cxd4 Kb5 Kc3
    37/46	10:13	7,580,756,436	12,364,935	+1.00	Be3 a6 a4 Kf7 g3 c5 a5 g5 Rd1 Ke6 Kd2 h6 b3 Bb5 Rg1 Be5 h4 Kf5 g4+ Kg6 h5+ Kg7 c4 Bc6 Kd3 Bf3 Bd2 Bh2 Bc3+ Kg8 Rf1 Bxg4 Rf6 Kh7 Rf7+ Kg8 Rxb7 Bxh5 Rb6 Bg6+ Ke2 Bc2 Kd2
    38/50	12:05	8,968,493,667	12,364,469	+0.97	Be3 a6 a4 Kf7 g3 c5 a5 g5 Rd1 Ke6 Kd2 h5 Re1 Kf7 Rf1 Kg6 Kc2 Ba4+ Kc1 Bb3 Kd2 Bc4 Rd1 Bb3 Rb1 Kf5 Rf1+ Ke6 Rg1 Kd7 Kd3 g4 Rf1 Ke6 Kd2 Bc4 Re1 Kd7 Kc2 Bd5 b4 Kc6
    39/51	20:21	15,027,143,367	12,303,554	+1.03	Be3 a6 a4 Bf5 a5 g6 Ke2 h5 g3 Ke8 Re1 Kd7 h4 Bg4+ Kf2 Be6 Kg2 Bd5+ Kh3 Bc4 Kh2 Be6 Rf1 Bf5 Kg1 Be5 Kf2 Bf6 Rc1 Be6 b4 Bc4 Bd4 Be7 Re1 Bd5 Ke3 c5 Bg7 g5 Rd1 Kc6
    40/54	32:38	24,149,875,848	12,330,392	+1.00	Be3 a6 a4 Bf5 Ke2 c5 Kf3 h5 a5 g6 h3 Kf7 g4 Bd7 Bf4 Be7 Rg1 hxg4+ hxg4 g5 Be3 Bf6 Rd1 Bc6+ Ke2 Ke6 Kf2 Be7 Kg3 Bf6 Rf1 Bd5 Re1 Kf7 Rd1 Ke6 Kf2 Bc6 Ke2 Be7 Re1 Bf6 Kd3 Kf7
    41/56	1:15:17	55,767,894,167	12,344,196	+0.87	Be3 a5 Bd4 Bg5 c4 Be6 b3 a4 Rd1 g6 g3 Ke8 h4 Be7 Kf2 Kd7 Kf3 b6 Bh8 Kc6 Kf4 axb3 axb3 Bf7 Re1 Kd7 Ke4 g5 hxg5 Bxg5 Kd3 Bg6+ Kc3 h5 Rh1 Ke6 b4 Kf5 Rf1+ Ke6 b5 h4 gxh4 Bxh4 Bd4 Be4
    42/54	1:38:41	73,285,257,338	12,375,938	+0.85	Be3 a5 Bd4 Bg5 c4 Be6 b3 a4 Rd1 g6 g3 Ke8 h4 Be7 Kf2 Kd7 Kf3 b6 Bh8 h6 Rd2 axb3 axb3 Kc6 Rc2 Kd7 Bg7 h5 Rd2 g5 hxg5 Bxg5 Rh2 Bf7 Ke2 Ke6 Bd4 d5 cxd5+ Kxd5 Be3 Bf6 Rf2 Ke6 Rf1 Be5
   6/27/2018 1:56:25 AM, Time for this analysis: 01:58:20, Rated time: 3:56:40
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Nordlandia
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:38 pm
Location: Sortland, Norway

Re: Genuine position for endgame play

Post by Nordlandia »

This position require accuracy. At one point in time white sacrifice the exchange back on d5 with an +1.5 advantage. 1.5 advantage is hardly sustainable in the endgame. Additinally the R+B duo if favourable than R+N. Probably lost after all.

[d]r7/3p2pk/p1n1p3/1p1bPpB1/8/8/PP3PPP/R2R2K1 w - - 0 1