how will Leela fare at the WCCC?

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Guenther
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Re: how will Leela fare at the WCCC?

Post by Guenther » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:59 am

George Tsavdaris wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:53 am


It was this position, a dead draw one:
8/8/8/KR6/p3k3/P7/2b5/8 w - - 0 1

Leela's operator was having problems with time and he was running out of time, so he offered a draw 2 moves before the end i think, but Komodo's operator didn't accept(!! really very bad Chess sportsmanship) and he couldn't keep up with executing the moves so he run out of time so 0-1.

So this loss for Leela was because her operator wasn't good enough by playing the moves on a "dead draw" position. This is not Chess of course. They should have accepted the draw in this kind of dead position but it's ok since it's inside the rules of course.
Thanks for confirming what I guessed in my post, which I was writing at the same time, George.

Even if it is covered by the rules you won't make friends, if you refuse a draw after >130 moves and being on
the weaker side
of a dead drawn 6men endgame! Very bad sportsmanship...

Damir
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Re: how will Leela fare at the WCCC?

Post by Damir » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:04 pm

Humans should not be allowed to execute moves on the board, and hereby affect the outcome of the game. Let the engines play on their own, and if it is draw, it is draw...

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George Tsavdaris
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Re: how will Leela fare at the WCCC?

Post by George Tsavdaris » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:10 pm

Damir wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:04 pm
Humans should not be allowed to execute moves on the board, and hereby affect the outcome of the game. Let the engines play on their own, and if it is draw, it is draw...
Well that's how WCCC's are being played. It's human plus the engine.
Remember the 2003 Shredder-Jonny event? The good gesture of Johannes gave Shredder the WCCC(along with Junior or Fritz).
If Johannes was the opponent of Leela today for example, he would gladly accept the draw offer i guess, so standings would be totally different. And it's a 7 rounds tournament anyway so every half point counts.
After his son's birth they've asked him:
"Is it a boy or girl?"
YES! He replied.....

Werewolf
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Re: how will Leela fare at the WCCC?

Post by Werewolf » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:10 pm

Guenther wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:59 am
George Tsavdaris wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:53 am


It was this position, a dead draw one:
8/8/8/KR6/p3k3/P7/2b5/8 w - - 0 1

Leela's operator was having problems with time and he was running out of time, so he offered a draw 2 moves before the end i think, but Komodo's operator didn't accept(!! really very bad Chess sportsmanship) and he couldn't keep up with executing the moves so he run out of time so 0-1.

So this loss for Leela was because her operator wasn't good enough by playing the moves on a "dead draw" position. This is not Chess of course. They should have accepted the draw in this kind of dead position but it's ok since it's inside the rules of course.
Thanks for confirming what I guessed in my post, which I was writing at the same time, George.

Even if it is covered by the rules you won't make friends, if you refuse a draw after >130 moves and being on
the weaker side
of a dead drawn 6men endgame! Very bad sportsmanship...

+1 A tablebase draw should have been agreed as drawn

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Guenther
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Re: how will Leela fare at the WCCC?

Post by Guenther » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:15 pm

When things were still relaxed at least for Leelas operators:

Image

frankp
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Re: how will Leela fare at the WCCC?

Post by frankp » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:19 pm

Allowing the possibility of 'gamesmanship' in a computer tournament is a little perplexing.
Relies on 'good' behaviour', I guess. When money/commercialism is involved, this is probably asking too much of some people.

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Guenther
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Re: how will Leela fare at the WCCC?

Post by Guenther » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:29 pm

Laskos wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:53 am
The issue here is the book, and whether the opponents can exploit the atrocious performance of Leela on tactical puzzles even in openings. Leela can easily lose 200 Elo points if the opponents will use tactically very sharp openings.
From the current games it can be deducted that it plays solely with its network and w/o any other external book.

JJJ
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Re: how will Leela fare at the WCCC?

Post by JJJ » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:36 pm

That's very sad draw wasn't accepted.

Albert Silver
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Re: how will Leela fare at the WCCC?

Post by Albert Silver » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:56 pm

frankp wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:19 pm
Allowing the possibility of 'gamesmanship' in a computer tournament is a little perplexing.
Relies on 'good' behaviour', I guess. When money/commercialism is involved, this is probably asking too much of some people.
More than a little perplexing. Leela and operator lost on time through their own setup. There was no power outage, no dizzy spell by the operator, in other words, no mitigating circumstances other than failing to be prepared. The clock is a part of the game. Take ownership of mistakes made, and don't blame the opponent for benefiting from them.
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

JJJ
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Re: how will Leela fare at the WCCC?

Post by JJJ » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:31 pm

Albert Silver wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:56 pm
frankp wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:19 pm
Allowing the possibility of 'gamesmanship' in a computer tournament is a little perplexing.
Relies on 'good' behaviour', I guess. When money/commercialism is involved, this is probably asking too much of some people.
More than a little perplexing. Leela and operator lost on time through their own setup. There was no power outage, no dizzy spell by the operator, in other words, no mitigating circumstances other than failing to be prepared. The clock is a part of the game. Take ownership of mistakes made, and don't blame the opponent for benefiting from them.
Sure, but I still think it is not very fair to win like that. Now I won't buy Komodo ever.

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