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Re: TCEC season 13, 2 NN engines will be participating, Leela and Deus X

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:46 am
by Rebel
Milos wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:28 pm
Eelco de Groot wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:22 pm
Karol Majewski wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:18 pm
May the 1st 2019 on Chessbase.com:

DeusX 1, the first ever neural network chess engine, is now available on Chessbase. Written by Albert Silver is now the strongest chess engine on the planet (~3700 Elo). Click here to get 20% discount for DeusX 1 and get it for only 2400$.
Only in this case the GPL would come into play. If he wanted to distribute it. Even for free. As long as it's private, Albert can do what he want with it. Only the TCEC rules apply, not the GPL. As far as participation is concerned. At least I think so.
GPL never comes into play. Simply speaking file weights.txt is not copyrightable and putting copyright claim to it is void. If you think differently please consult a copyright lawyer.
Milos, maybe you remember the Rybka-Fruit-Drama, part of the accusations was that Vas copied the PST numbers by running Fruit with a few parameter weight changes. Not sure what your view was back then but I remember the outcry.

Re: TCEC season 13, 2 NN engines will be participating, Leela and Deus X

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:27 pm
by Robert Pope
Well, whether something is a copy and whether something is copyrighted are really different discussions.

Re: TCEC season 13, 2 NN engines will be participating, Leela and Deus X

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:29 pm
by Milos
Rebel wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:46 am
Milos wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:28 pm
Eelco de Groot wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:22 pm
Karol Majewski wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:18 pm
May the 1st 2019 on Chessbase.com:

DeusX 1, the first ever neural network chess engine, is now available on Chessbase. Written by Albert Silver is now the strongest chess engine on the planet (~3700 Elo). Click here to get 20% discount for DeusX 1 and get it for only 2400$.
Only in this case the GPL would come into play. If he wanted to distribute it. Even for free. As long as it's private, Albert can do what he want with it. Only the TCEC rules apply, not the GPL. As far as participation is concerned. At least I think so.
GPL never comes into play. Simply speaking file weights.txt is not copyrightable and putting copyright claim to it is void. If you think differently please consult a copyright lawyer.
Milos, maybe you remember the Rybka-Fruit-Drama, part of the accusations was that Vas copied the PST numbers by running Fruit with a few parameter weight changes. Not sure what your view was back then but I remember the outcry.
Well I really don't have time to search for my posts, but I remember clearly as it was yesterday that I spent like tens of posts trying to convince Bob that copying PST values is totally irrelevant coz PST values are just numbers that cannot be copyrighted. As usual Bob was totally deaf on all the arguments.

Re: TCEC season 13, 2 NN engines will be participating, Leela and Deus X

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:27 pm
by hgm
Machine code in a .exe file is also just a sequence of numbers...

Re: TCEC season 13, 2 NN engines will be participating, Leela and Deus X

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:08 am
by CypherOz
It looks like Leela will win Div 4 and promote to Div 3... the real question is will she get to Div 2?

Re: TCEC season 13, 2 NN engines will be participating, Leela and Deus X

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:59 am
by Laskos
CypherOz wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:08 am
It looks like Leela will win Div 4 and promote to Div 3... the real question is will she get to Div 2?
I would say probably yes. The new net is about 100 Elo points stronger than the one currently playing. It seems TCEC doesn't favor much NN engines on GPU. The GPU component is underpowered in TCEC machine compared to CPU.

Re: TCEC season 13, 2 NN engines will be participating, Leela and Deus X

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:46 am
by whereagles
Underpowered? What would be the necessary upgrade in your opinion, Kai?

Re: TCEC season 13, 2 NN engines will be participating, Leela and Deus X

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:00 am
by Error323
whereagles wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:46 am
Underpowered? What would be the necessary upgrade in your opinion, Kai?
The gpus are not underpowered. 2x 1080Ti give about 22 teraflops of 32bit float performance (theoretically). What might happen is that they get too hot due to insufficient cooling. In that case they start throttling down significantly.

Re: TCEC season 13, 2 NN engines will be participating, Leela and Deus X

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:04 am
by whereagles
Error323 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:00 am
The gpus are not underpowered. 2x 1080Ti give about 22 teraflops of 32bit float performance (theoretically). What might happen is that they get too hot due to insufficient cooling. In that case they start throttling down significantly.
Funny you mention that. Some TCEC viewers reported slow downs in leela NPS count. I wonder (lack of) cooling might be responsible.

Re: TCEC season 13, 2 NN engines will be participating, Leela and Deus X

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:21 am
by Laskos
Error323 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:00 am
whereagles wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:46 am
Underpowered? What would be the necessary upgrade in your opinion, Kai?
The gpus are not underpowered. 2x 1080Ti give about 22 teraflops of 32bit float performance (theoretically). What might happen is that they get too hot due to insufficient cooling. In that case they start throttling down significantly.
Price-wise and power consumption wice, they are underpowered compared to the CPUs used. I don't care about teraflops when comparing GPU to CPU in a competition.