TalkChess.com

George Tsavdaris wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:37 pm Not really.

Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication

jp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:44 pm

Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication

The problem is Lc0 is really bad at endgames.

mjlef wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:23 pm

jp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:44 pm

Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication

The problem is Lc0 is really bad at endgames.

I know Alpha Zero adjudicated the games it played versus Stockfish. Looking at a few of the 10 games they published, they do seem like losses for Stockfish. But I if Alpha Zero would have been able to finish the game. If you play until ahead some amount, will a nn engine be able to play to the end accurately all the time? I suppose this could be tested, but maybe this weakness might have not been found without playing to the actual end. Perhaps nn engine should be trained to the end of the game, or until they see mate or at least a draw score for a while.

jkiliani wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:33 pm

mjlef wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:23 pm

jp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:44 pm

Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication

The problem is Lc0 is really bad at endgames.

I know Alpha Zero adjudicated the games it played versus Stockfish. Looking at a few of the 10 games they published, they do seem like losses for Stockfish. But I if Alpha Zero would have been able to finish the game. If you play until ahead some amount, will a nn engine be able to play to the end accurately all the time? I suppose this could be tested, but maybe this weakness might have not been found without playing to the actual end. Perhaps nn engine should be trained to the end of the game, or until they see mate or at least a draw score for a while.

Lc0 now has a training run using tablebase rescoring for training, rather soon we should be able to see improvements in endgame play from this.

Milos wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:10 pm

jkiliani wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:33 pm

mjlef wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:23 pm

jp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:44 pm

Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication

The problem is Lc0 is really bad at endgames.

I know Alpha Zero adjudicated the games it played versus Stockfish. Looking at a few of the 10 games they published, they do seem like losses for Stockfish. But I if Alpha Zero would have been able to finish the game. If you play until ahead some amount, will a nn engine be able to play to the end accurately all the time? I suppose this could be tested, but maybe this weakness might have not been found without playing to the actual end. Perhaps nn engine should be trained to the end of the game, or until they see mate or at least a draw score for a while.

Lc0 now has a training run using tablebase rescoring for training, rather soon we should be able to see improvements in endgame play from this.

And you still keep "0" in the name, what a joke...

CMCanavessi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:28 pm

Milos wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:10 pm

jkiliani wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:33 pm

mjlef wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:23 pm

jp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:44 pm

Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication

The problem is Lc0 is really bad at endgames.

I know Alpha Zero adjudicated the games it played versus Stockfish. Looking at a few of the 10 games they published, they do seem like losses for Stockfish. But I if Alpha Zero would have been able to finish the game. If you play until ahead some amount, will a nn engine be able to play to the end accurately all the time? I suppose this could be tested, but maybe this weakness might have not been found without playing to the actual end. Perhaps nn engine should be trained to the end of the game, or until they see mate or at least a draw score for a while.

Lc0 now has a training run using tablebase rescoring for training, rather soon we should be able to see improvements in endgame play from this.

And you still keep "0" in the name, what a joke...

I know you're just trolling, but (even if I don't like) TBs don't break the zero rule. It's not "human knowledge", it's perfect chess.

jp wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:44 pm

Gary Internet wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:19 am They need to implement tablebase adjudication for this tournament to cut down o the number of times we end up watching engines messing about for 100+ moves of pointless crap.
At least 6 man if not 7 man adjudication

The problem is Lc0 is really bad at endgames.

MikeGL wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:46 pm But I think Lc0 with TB or syzygy support would solve this problem easily.
Not sure if Lc0 at CCCC have TB support though.