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Re: Chess.com 2018 computer chess championship
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:54 pm
by corres
Milos wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:07 pm
corres wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:11 pm
Milos wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:23 pm
corres wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:50 pm
Hyper threads can use only the unused resources of the processor.
So it yields plus Elo only if the processor is not overclocked.
Lol, again you with those ridiculous claims. You don't even understand what overclocking actually means.
Overclocking and hyperthreading are two completely orthogonal ways to speed up CPU operations, if you even know what orthogonal means.
Please. make some experiments about that instead of thinking on idealized situations.
Do you understand CPU with unlimited resources?
If yes, please divide that information with us.
To understand what I am talking about you need at least basic knowledge of modern computer architecture and how thermal management works.
Simply speaking HT by duplicating instruction fetching, caching and branching enables more efficient pipelining of execution units and more instructions being executed per clock cycle.
When you overclock you cpu, you simply increase the frequency of those clock cycles so they take less time to execute.
Having HT on, increases power consumption and heating of CPU therefore you might see that when CPU is overclocked you don't get the same benefit from HT than what you get when CPU is not overclocked. For example, while HT brings 30% more performance it increases power dissipation for 10% and increases throttling for 10% yielding positive net effect of lets say 20%. With overclocking HT still brings 30% but increases power dissipation for 20% yielding smaller positive net effect of lets say 10%. These numbers are just for illustration purposes so you can understand what I am talking about.
I like peoples who like to brief others.
Really, the heating effect is the main restricting factor.
But instead of "lets say" the rates of benefit/drawback decide the concrete situation and not an abstract illustration.
In generally, the overclocking gives more benefit for chess engines than using HT.
It is obvious if you use a server without significant throttling you are forced to use HT for enhanced achievement.
Re: Chess.com 2018 computer chess championship
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:01 pm
by Maharadja
AndrewGrant wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:46 am
Maharadja wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:45 am
AndrewGrant wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:43 am
Maharadja wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:41 am
megamau wrote: ↑Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:39 am
I find DrCliche attitude absolutely appalling.
You may find me suspicious, but I think we might have here a strange case of Dr Cliche and Mr Grant...
Strange case of two competent people in the same room
I would be not surprised if you are talking here about a physical room
What (if anything) can I do to prove otherwise
Just call me a moron like you wished, even if it's not instructive...
It still amazes me that an amateur like you can trick so many people with childish tricks and little boy actions.
Re: Chess.com 2018 computer chess championship
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:51 pm
by AndrewGrant
Maharadja wrote: ↑Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:01 pm
AndrewGrant wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:46 am
Maharadja wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:45 am
AndrewGrant wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:43 am
Maharadja wrote: ↑Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:41 am
megamau wrote: ↑Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:39 am
I find DrCliche attitude absolutely appalling.
You may find me suspicious, but I think we might have here a strange case of Dr Cliche and Mr Grant...
Strange case of two competent people in the same room
I would be not surprised if you are talking here about a physical room
What (if anything) can I do to prove otherwise
Just call me a moron like you wished, even if it's not instructive...
It still amazes me that an amateur like you can trick so many people with childish tricks and little boy actions.
I really don't hold back. Why on earth would I need a second account? I can tell just as well that you are a moron on this account.
Dr.Cliche is one of only a handful of people in this thread that have any clue what they are talking about.
Re: Chess.com 2018 computer chess championship
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:58 pm
by ouachita
AndrewGrant wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:22 pm
ouachita wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:21 pm
AndrewGrant wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:24 am
ouachita wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:40 am
zullil wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:21 pm
kranium wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:18 pm
zullil wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:00 pm
Thanks. I don't understand the choice to enable pondering. The server has 48 physical cores. Each engine will run 46 threads. So with pondering on, 92 threads will be running on only 48 physical cores. Seems like a bad idea to me.
It's called 'hyperthreading' Louis, an Intel technology...each physical core = 2 logical cores
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading
I'm quite familiar with hyperthreading. My concerns remain.
Your concerns are justified. I've lost two games in the last five years. I used HT for a few moves in both, and am convinced HT resulted in weak moves resulting is loss. I otherwise never use HT.
No, you are mistaken. The concerns in this thread are about the mixing of hyperthread and pondering.
For engines with proper CPU scaling support, hyperthreads will be an elo gain over non hyperthreads.
The following link shows this is the case when using Stockfish:
http://tests.stockfishchess.org/tests/v ... 02b2e60162
LOL, I'm not mistaken about why I lost these two games - HT.
There is a 100% chance I know more on the subject than you do.
You might know "more about HT" than I, but you don't know more about why HT led to the two loses I refer to. There's little if any relationship between running a 20,000 game blitz match and seeing a few ELO advantage with HT versus analyzing one position for say 24 hours with HT enabled, seeing the top three lines of output with the same numerical rating and selecting one that turns out to be bogus or weak. Ultimately, I'm at fault for not finding that flaw before I made my move.
Re: Chess.com 2018 computer chess championship
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:44 am
by Nay Lin Tun
Updating status!
Leela's chance of going into final is thinner and thinner!
Anyway, 11250 + TB should be +50 elo than current network and she will have high chance of going into final in October 5/2 blitz tourney.
Re: Chess.com 2018 computer chess championship
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:48 am
by Uri Blass
Nay Lin Tun wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:44 am
Updating status!
Leela's chance of going into final is thinner and thinner!
Anyway, 11250 + TB should be +50 elo than current network and she will have high chance of going into final in October 5/2 blitz tourney.
I can only hope it is not going to happen because I do not like stupid engines to get good results.
lc0 evaluated a drawn tablebases KQ vs KQP as 15 pawns for herself.
Lack of tablebases is no excuse because normal engines without them are not going to do it.
Re: Chess.com 2018 computer chess championship
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:35 am
by Laskos
Uri Blass wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:48 am
Nay Lin Tun wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:44 am
Updating status!
Leela's chance of going into final is thinner and thinner!
Anyway, 11250 + TB should be +50 elo than current network and she will have high chance of going into final in October 5/2 blitz tourney.
I can only hope it is not going to happen because I do not like stupid engines to get good results.
LOL, that's brilliant!
Exactly for this I like Lc0. Maybe because I empathize with it, as I am stupid too, but I want to get good results
.
In fact the best thing for me would be "Idiot's guide on how to have a shot at Nobel Prize being a complete idiot"
.
lc0 evaluated a drawn tablebases KQ vs KQP as 15 pawns for herself.
Lack of tablebases is no excuse because normal engines without them are not going to do it.
Re: Chess.com 2018 computer chess championship
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:23 am
by tpoppins
Laskos wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:35 am
In fact the best thing for me would be "Idiot's guide on how to have a shot at Nobel Prize being a complete idiot"
.
Check your local bookstore. It should be on the shelf next to "
Crash Course in Brain Surgery".
Re: Chess.com 2018 computer chess championship
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:39 am
by Laskos
tpoppins wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:23 am
Laskos wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:35 am
In fact the best thing for me would be "Idiot's guide on how to have a shot at Nobel Prize being a complete idiot"
.
Check your local bookstore. It should be on the shelf next to "
Crash Course in Brain Surgery".
Damn, that metal thing in your link seems to have side effects, like auditive hallucinations in the sudden silence after that monstrosity.
Re: Chess.com 2018 computer chess championship
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:33 pm
by jp
Laskos wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:35 am
Uri Blass wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:48 am
I can only hope it is not going to happen because I do not like stupid engines to get good results.
lc0 evaluated a drawn tablebases KQ vs KQP as 15 pawns for herself.
LOL, that's brilliant!
Exactly for this I like Lc0. Maybe because I empathize with it, as I am stupid too, but I want to get good results .
Then maybe adjudicate before your endgame -- euthanasia??