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Analysis needed

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:13 am
by Colin-G

In an old chess book I was reading, I saw the position above
The book said
"White will now play Nf6-h7-g5+, etc., and win easily."
I could not find a win myself.
Stockfish had the position slightly better for White, but could not find a forced win.
The position seems more complicated than it first appears. Black has to play very carefully.
Could someone with a better computer than me try this position.

Re: Analysis needed

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:57 am
by Vinvin
Even after taking a pawn, the EGTB says it's draw :
https://lichess.org/analysis/standard/8 ... _w_-_-_1_7_

Re: Analysis needed

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:13 pm
by George Tsavdaris
Vinvin wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:57 am
Even after taking a pawn, the EGTB says it's draw :
https://lichess.org/analysis/standard/8 ... _w_-_-_1_7_
What? :D
After Nc6+ and then e5 white is winning.

I guess you misplaced the King. With King on e6, it's a draw indeed.

Re: Analysis needed

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:22 pm
by zenpawn
George Tsavdaris wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:13 pm
What? :D
After Nc6+ and then e5 white is winning.
The knight is pinned.

Re: Analysis needed

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:23 pm
by Vinvin
George Tsavdaris wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:13 pm
Vinvin wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:57 am
Even after taking a pawn, the EGTB says it's draw :
https://lichess.org/analysis/standard/8 ... _w_-_-_1_7_
What? :D
After Nc6+ and then e5 white is winning.

I guess you misplaced the King. With King on e6, it's a draw indeed.
I don't understand what you mean. Nc6 is an illegal move.
This position arise after : 1. Nf6 Ba1 2. Nh7 Bd4 3. Ng5+ Kd6 4. Kf6 Kc6 5. Nf7 Kb6 6. Nxe5 Ka5

Re: Analysis needed

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:30 pm
by Guenther
George Tsavdaris wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:13 pm
Vinvin wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:57 am
Even after taking a pawn, the EGTB says it's draw :
https://lichess.org/analysis/standard/8 ... _w_-_-_1_7_
What? :D
After Nc6+ and then e5 white is winning.

I guess you misplaced the King. With King on e6, it's a draw indeed.
Well, Nc6 is an illegal move in Vincents position ;-)

IMHO the original position is really a draw because Black always has the attack on c4! for giving up e5.

Re: Analysis needed

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:38 pm
by tpoppins
11 legal moves. Eight moves draw, three knight moves lose.

Code: Select all

Analysis by Stockfish 290818 64 POPCNT BF (8 GB hash, 5-men Syzygy, MultiPV=11):

1. +/= (0.48): 1.Nf6 Bc3 2.Nd5 Bd2 3.Nb6 Bc3 4.Kg7 Bd4 5.Nd5 Kd6 6.Kf6 Bf2 7.Kf7 Kd7 8.Ne7 Bd4 9.Ng6 Kd6 10.Kf6 Kd7 11.Kf5 Kd6 12.Nh8 Ke7 13.Kg5 Ke6 14.Kg6 Bc3 15.Nf7 Ba5 16.Ng5+ Ke7 17.Kf5 Bc3 18.Nh7 Kd6 19.Nf8 Bd4 20.Ng6 Bc3 21.Kf6 Bd4 22.Ne7 Kd7 23.Kf7 Be3 24.Nf5 Bg5 25.Kg6 Bd8 26.Kh5 Kc6 27.Kg4 Ba5 28.Ne7+ Kd6 29.Nd5 Be1 30.Kh5 Bg3 31.Ne3 Bf2 32.Nf1 Bd4 33.Kg6 Kc7 34.Nd2 Be3 35.Nb3 Kd6 36.Kf5 Bf4 37.Kf6 Be3 38.Na1 Bd4 39.Nc2 Bf2 40.Kg5 Bd4 41.Kg6 Bf2 42.Kf6 Bh4+ 43.Kg7 Bf2 44.Na1 Kc7 45.Nb3 Kd6 46.Na5 Bg3 47.Nb7+ Kd7 48.Kf6 Kc7 49.Nxc5 Bf2 50.Na4 Bd4 51.Ke6 Kc6 52.Ke7 Bf2 53.Kf6 Bg3 54.Kf5 Kd6 
2. +/= (0.48): 1.Nh2 Bc3 2.Nf3 Ke7 3.Kf5 Kd6 4.Nh4 Bb2 5.Kg5 Ke6 6.Kg6 Bc3 7.Kg7 Kd6 8.Kf6 Bd4 9.Ng6 Kd7 10.Kf5 Kd6 11.Nh8 Ke7 12.Kg5 Ke6 13.Kg6 Bc3 14.Nf7 Ba5 15.Ng5+ Ke7 16.Kf5 Bc3 17.Nh7 Kd6 18.Nf8 Bd4 19.Ng6 Bc3 20.Kf6 Bd4 21.Ne7 Kd7 22.Kf7 Be3 23.Nf5 Bg5 24.Kg6 Bd8 25.Kh5 Kc6 26.Kg4 Ba5 27.Ne7+ Kd6 28.Nd5 Be1 29.Kh5 Bg3 30.Ne3 Bf2 31.Nf1 Bd4 32.Kg6 Kc7 33.Nd2 Be3 34.Nb3 Kd6 35.Kf5 Bf4 36.Na5 Be3 37.Kf6 Bd2 38.Nb3 Bc3 39.Kf5 Bb2 40.Kg6 Bc3 41.Nc1 Bd4 42.Kg7 Bc3 43.Nd3 Bd4 44.Kf7 Be3 45.Ne1 Bg5 46.Ng2 Bd8 47.Kg8 Kc7 48.Ne1 Bh4 49.Nf3 Bf2 50.Nxe5 Kd6 51.Nd3 Bd4 52.Kf7 Bc3 53.Kg6 Ke6 54.Kg5 
3. +/= (0.48): 1.Nh6 Bc3 2.Nf7 Ba5 3.Ng5+ Ke7 4.Kf5 Bc3 5.Nh7 Kd6 6.Nf8 Bd4 7.Ng6 Bc3 8.Kf6 Bd4 9.Ne7 Kd7 10.Kf7 Be3 11.Nf5 Bg5 12.Kg6 Bd8 13.Kh5 Kc6 14.Kg4 Ba5 15.Ne7+ Kd6 16.Nd5 Be1 17.Kh5 Bg3 18.Ne3 Bf2 19.Nf1 Bd4 20.Kg6 Kc7 21.Nd2 Be3 22.Nb3 Kd6 23.Kf6 Bd4 24.Kf5 Bc3 25.Kg4 Bd4 26.Kh5 Bb2 27.Kh6 Bc3 28.Kg7 Kc6 29.Kf6 Kd6 30.Kf5 Bb2 31.Na5 Bd4 32.Kg5 Be3+ 33.Kh5 Bd2 34.Nb3 Be3 35.Kg6 Ke6 36.Na1 Kd6 37.Kf6 Bd4 38.Nc2 Bf2 39.Kg5 Bd4 40.Kg6 Bf2 41.Na3 Be1 42.Kf7 Bh4 43.Kg7 Bd8 44.Nc2 Bb6 45.Ne3 Ke6 46.Nd1 Bd8 47.Nc3 Bb6 48.Na4 Ba7 49.Kg6 Bb8 50.Nxc5+ Kd6 51.Nd3 Ba7 52.Kf6 Bd4 53.Kf5 Bc3 54.Kg6 Bd4 
4. +/= (0.48): 1.Kg5 Bc3 2.Nh6 Bd4 3.Kg6 Bc3 4.Nf7 Ba5 5.Ng5+ Ke7 6.Kf5 Bc3 7.Nh7 Kd6 8.Nf8 Bd4 9.Ng6 Bc3 10.Kf6 Bd4 11.Ne7 Kd7 12.Kf7 Be3 13.Nf5 Bg5 14.Kg6 Bd8 15.Kh5 Kc6 16.Kg4 Ba5 17.Ne7+ Kd6 18.Nd5 Be1 19.Kh5 Bg3 20.Ne3 Bf2 21.Ng2 Bd4 22.Ne1 Bc3 23.Nd3 Bd4 24.Kh6 Bc3 25.Kg6 Ke6 26.Nc1 Kd6 27.Kf5 Ba1 28.Nb3 Bc3 29.Kf6 Bd4 30.Nc1 Bc3 31.Kg6 Bd4 32.Kf7 Bb2 33.Ne2 Bd4 34.Ng3 Kd7 35.Nf1 Kc6 36.Nd2 Kd6 37.Nf3 Bf2 38.Ng5 Bd4 39.Kf6 Kc6 40.Nf3 Kd7 41.Kf5 Kd6 42.Kg6 Be3 43.Nh2 Bc1 44.Ng4 Bf4 45.Kf5 Bg3 46.Nh6 Ke7 47.Kg6 Ke6 48.Kg7 Bh4 49.Nf7 Kd7 50.Nxe5+ Ke6 51.Nd3 Bf6+ 52.Kh7 Bd4 53.Kg6 Bc3 54.Kh5 Bd4 55.Kh4 Be3 
5. +/= (0.48): 1.Kg7 Kd6 2.Kf6 Kd7 3.Nh2 Kc6 4.Nf3 Kd7 5.Kg6 Kd6 6.Kf5 Bc3 7.Nh2 Bd4 8.Ng4 Bc3 9.Nf2 Ba1 10.Kg6 Bd4 11.Nd3 Ke6 12.Nc1 Kd6 13.Kf7 Bb2 14.Ne2 Bd4 15.Ng3 Kd7 16.Nf1 Kc6 17.Nd2 Kd6 18.Nb3 Bc3 19.Kf8 Bb2 20.Nd2 Bd4 21.Nf3 Bc3 22.Kf7 Bd4 23.Ne1 Be3 24.Kg6 Bd4 25.Kg7 Bc3 26.Nd3 Bd4 27.Kh6 Bc3 28.Kg6 Ke6 29.Nc1 Kd6 30.Kf5 Ba1 31.Nb3 Bc3 32.Kg5 Ke6 33.Kg6 Kd6 34.Kh6 Bb2 35.Kh5 Ke7 36.Kg6 Kd6 37.Nd2 Bc3 38.Nb1 Bd4 39.Kf6 Kc6 40.Nd2 Kd6 41.Nf1 Bc3 42.Kf7 Bd4 43.Kg7 Bf2 44.Nd2 Bh4 45.Nb3 Bf2 46.Na5 Bg3 47.Nb7+ Kd7 48.Kf6 Kc7 49.Nxc5 Bf2 50.Na4 Bd4 51.Ke6 
6. +/= (0.48): 1.Kh6 Kf7 2.Kg5 Ke6 3.Nh2 Be3+ 4.Kg6 Bd2 5.Ng4 Kd6 6.Kf7 Bg5 7.Kg7 Ke6 8.Nh6 Bh4 9.Nf7 Kd7 10.Nh8 Bd8 11.Ng6 Ke6 12.Kh6 Kf6 13.Nf8 Bc7 14.Nh7+ Ke6 15.Kh5 Bd8 16.Kg4 Ba5 17.Ng5+ Kf6 18.Nf3 Bb4 19.Kh5 Bc3 20.Nh2 Bd4 21.Ng4+ Ke6 22.Kg5 Bc3 23.Nh6 Bd4 24.Kg6 Bc3 25.Nf5 Bd2 26.Ng7+ Ke7 27.Kf5 Bc3 28.Nh5 Kd6 29.Nf6 Be1 30.Kg6 Bf2 31.Ng4 Bd4 32.Kf6 Kd7 33.Kf5 Kd6 34.Nf6 Bc3 35.Nd5 Be1 36.Ne3 Bg3 37.Ng2 Bf2 38.Kg4 Bd4 39.Kg5 Bc3 40.Kf6 Bd4 41.Kg6 Kc7 42.Ne1 Kd6 43.Nf3 Be3 44.Kf6 Bd4 45.Kf5 Bc3 46.Nh4 Bb2 47.Ng6 Bc3 48.Kg5 Kc7 49.Kf6 Kb6 50.Nxe5 Ka5 51.Kf5 Kb4 
7. +/= (0.48): 1.Kh7 Kf7 2.Kh6 Bc3 3.Kh5 Ke6 4.Kg6 Bd4 5.Kh6 Kf7 6.Kg5 Ke6 7.Nh2 Be3+ 8.Kg6 Bd2 9.Ng4 Kd6 10.Kf7 Bg5 11.Kg7 Ke6 12.Nh6 Bh4 13.Nf7 Kd7 14.Nh8 Bd8 15.Ng6 Ke6 16.Kh6 Kf6 17.Nf8 Bc7 18.Nh7+ Ke6 19.Kh5 Bd8 20.Kg4 Ba5 21.Kg5 Bd2+ 22.Kg6 Ba5 23.Ng5+ Ke7 24.Kg7 Bb6 25.Nf3 Ke6 26.Ng1 Ba7 27.Ne2 Bb8 28.Nc1 Bd6 29.Nd3 Ke7 30.Nf2 Ke6 31.Ng4 Be7 32.Kg6 Bd6 33.Nf6 Bc7 34.Nh5 Bd8 35.Ng7+ Kd6 36.Kf5 Ba5 37.Ne6 Bc3 38.Nf8 Bd4 39.Ng6 Bc3 40.Nh8 Ke7 41.Kg6 Be1 42.Nf7 Bh4 43.Nh6 Ke6 44.Ng4 Bd8 45.Nf2 Ba5 46.Kg7 Bb6 47.Kh6 Ba7 48.Nd3 Bb6 49.Kh5 Bc7 50.Nxc5+ Kd6 51.Nd3 Bb6 52.Kg5 Bd4 53.Kf5 
8. +/= (0.48): 1.Kh5 Bc3 2.Kg6 Bd4 3.Kh7 Kf7 4.Kh6 Bc3 5.Kg5 Ke6 6.Nf6 Bd2+ 7.Kg6 Kd6 8.Ng4 Bf4 9.Nh6 Ke6 10.Nf5 Bd2 11.Ng7+ Ke7 12.Kf5 Bc3 13.Ne6 Kd6 14.Nf8 Bd4 15.Ng6 Bc3 16.Kf6 Bd4 17.Kf7 Bc3 18.Nh4 Bd4 19.Nf3 Bf2 20.Kg6 Ke6 21.Nd2 Be3 22.Nb3 Kd6 23.Na1 Bf2 24.Nc2 Kc6 25.Kg5 Kd6 26.Na3 Be1 27.Nb5+ Ke6 28.Kg6 Ba5 29.Kg7 Be1 30.Na3 Bc3 31.Kg6 Bd2 32.Nc2 Bc3 33.Ne3 Bb2 34.Ng2 Bc3 35.Nh4 Kd6 36.Kf6 Bd4 37.Ng6 Kd7 38.Kf5 Kd6 39.Nh8 Ke7 40.Kg5 Ke6 41.Kg6 Bc3 42.Kg7 Ba1 43.Ng6 Bd4 44.Nh4 Be3 45.Nf3 Kd6 46.Nh2 Kc6 47.Kf7 Kb6 48.Nf3 Ka5 49.Nxe5 Kb4 50.Nd7 Kxc4 51.e5 Bg5 52.e6 Bd8 
9. -+ (-#20): 1.Nf2 Bxf2 2.Kg5 Kd6 3.Kf6 Bd4 4.Kg7 Kc6 5.Kf8 Kb6 6.Kf7 Ka5 7.Ke6 Kb4 8.Kd5 Kc3 9.Kc6 Kxc4 10.Kd6 Kd3 11.Kd5 c4 12.Kc6 c3 13.Kd5 c2 14.Ke6 Kxe4 15.Kd6 c1Q 16.Ke6 Qc6+ 17.Kf7 Kf5 18.Kf8 Qf6+ 19.Ke8 Bb6 20.Kd7 Qe6# 
10. -+ (-#20): 1.Ne3 Bxe3 2.Kh5 Kd6 3.Kg4 Kc6 4.Kf3 Bd4 5.Kg4 Kb6 6.Kf3 Ka5 7.Ke2 Kb4 8.Kd3 Bg1 9.Kd2 Kxc4 10.Ke2 Kd4 11.Kf3 c4 12.Kg3 Kxe4 13.Kg4 c3 14.Kg5 c2 15.Kf6 c1Q 16.Ke6 Qh6+ 17.Kd7 Kd5 18.Ke8 Qg7 19.Kd8 Kd6 20.Kc8 Qc7# 
11. -+ (-#16): 1.Nxe5 Kxe5 2.Kg5 Kxe4 3.Kg6 Kd3 4.Kf5 Kxc4 5.Ke4 Kc3 6.Kf4 Kd3 7.Kg4 c4 8.Kg5 c3 9.Kf5 c2 10.Ke6 Ke4 11.Kf7 c1Q 12.Ke6 Qc6+ 13.Kf7 Qd7+ 14.Kg6 Qf5+ 15.Kh6 Qg4 16.Kh7 Qg7# 
Depth: 100   01:24:25  328737 MN


Re: Analysis needed

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:53 pm
by George Tsavdaris
Guenther wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:30 pm
George Tsavdaris wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:13 pm
Vinvin wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:57 am
Even after taking a pawn, the EGTB says it's draw :
https://lichess.org/analysis/standard/8 ... _w_-_-_1_7_
What? :D
After Nc6+ and then e5 white is winning.

I guess you misplaced the King. With King on e6, it's a draw indeed.
Well, Nc6 is an illegal move in Vincents position ;-)
OH DEAR GOD!!!!!!!!! I'm officially blind then! :shock: :D

Edit: oh thankfully i'm not that blind just a little careless since in the original position white King was on g6 and on Vincent's on f6 and i used a position with King on g6 so it wasn't pinned.