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B strategy is the future.

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:47 pm
by mclane
The race is not anymore about strength. The race is about b strategy and c strategy.
Komodo, Houdini and Stockfish showed that a strategy works. Or ab strategy.

But the future is not about this. It is about b strategy (no brute force)
and about c strategy (Computing like the humans do, with patterns).

Strength is not the target anymore. But PLANS.

Chess engines need to PLAN chess.

Re: B strategy is the future.

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:26 pm
by Uri Blass
humans clearly use brute force.

brute force does not contradict memorizing patterns or plans.

brute force is trying to look at all options of yourself and all options of your opponent and I found that doing it in part of my time(at least one ply forward) can help me to get better results in chess.

Re: B strategy is the future.

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:13 pm
by mclane
I know NO human being playing chess doing brute force. What a nonsense.

Re: B strategy is the future.

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:58 pm
by Dicaste
I am not using brute force. I'm just using some strict rules/patterns. Altho i am only 1850+ elo. I select the best(which is optimal for my pattern) and calculate only next 3 move btw i am obsessed to place my minor pieces to behind pawns for example instead of e4 e5 Nf3 i prefer to play e4 e5 f4?? or i prefer to play d4 d5 c4 then Nc3. I won't explain them all but they are working fine(for positional chess) until sharp deep tactics.

Re: B strategy is the future.

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:01 am
by brianr
FWIW Chess programs have been characterized as Type A and Type B since Shannon's historic paper:

https://vision.unipv.it/IA1/aa2009-2010 ... gChess.pdf

Re: B strategy is the future.

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:12 am
by chrisw
This human just knows what to do. Fast blitz can’t be played any other way.
For slower play it’s more or less the same, except one has time to think of the consequences, and during that process other ideas often emerge.
Is all entirely intuition.

Re: B strategy is the future.

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:10 am
by mclane
The AB strategy programs have reached the top limit.
Imo we should now concentrate on b strategy or even c strategy. Because you cannot earn anything anymore with AB.
We need new paths to walk on.

Re: B strategy is the future.

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:24 pm
by Look
Hi,

I think new paths should be examined. But I have my own doubts about these methods in Chess:
  • Artificial neural networks (ANN): Can you consider chess board as continuous ?
  • Monte carlo algorithm (MCA): Is a forced line same as other lines ?

Re: B strategy is the future.

Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:33 pm
by mclane
What is the sense when the NEW PATH is only another race like the usual race between Stockfish, Komodo and Houdini ?
That’s boring.

Before we had 3 bean counters, and then we have 4.

Sorry but I don’t see any news in this,

Chess is not about strength by computation,
Chess is about plans. About ideas and even art .

Re: B strategy is the future.

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:55 am
by tmokonen
You are such a romantic. :D

Do you find self learning programs such as AlphaZero and Leela Zero to be an interesting development? They definitely play an different style of chess than typical AB searchers, closer to artistic than a typical alpha beta searcher.