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Houston: We have lift off ...

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:36 pm
by MikeB
an amazing chart - where will it end ?
Screenshot 2018-11-15 15.34.08.png
up , up and away ...
Screenshot 2018-11-15 15.34.08.png (74.36 KiB) Viewed 2162 times

Re: Houston: We have lift off ...

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:25 pm
by AdminX
Mike,

There's no need to fear, cause Underdog is here!

Re: Houston: We have lift off ...

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:47 am
by MikeB
AdminX wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:25 pm
Mike,

There's no need to fear, cause Underdog is here!
+1

Re: Houston: We have lift off ...

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:58 am
by Dann Corbit
I see two cat 1 climbs and an HC.
Seems the downhill finish might put some of the sprinters back into it.

Re: Houston: We have lift off ...

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:56 pm
by Laskos
I don't know why you are so enthusiastic. Runs 20xxx and 30xxx are pretty pathetic, especially considering how much resources they have eaten up. Some folks there have overdone something. Just a quick check with the latest engine (rc4) and one of the latest nets:

TC: 60'' + 1''

Code: Select all

Rank Name                          Elo     +/-   Games   Score   Draws
     SF8                           120      68      60   66.7%   43.3%
   
   1 lc0_v19_11261                   0     111      20   50.0%   50.0%
   2 lc0_v19_31214                -147     128      20   30.0%   40.0%
   3 lc0_v19_9155                 -241     127      20   20.0%   40.0%
Finished match
So, run 30xxx is still ~150 Elo points below run 10xxx, and barely ~100 Elo points above 6x64 net 9155 (run 9xxx). Taking into account that the games with 6x64 net were 10-12 times faster and taking into account the hardware resources allocated, the whole run 9xxx could have been completed in less than a day. Lame runs, these newest ones. But I still hope that they will improve some 200 real Elo points over current level, although this is not granted at all.

Re: Houston: We have lift off ...

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:11 pm
by CMCanavessi
Laskos wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:56 pm
I don't know why you are so enthusiastic. Runs 20xxx and 30xxx are pretty pathetic, especially considering how much resources they have eaten up. Some folks there have overdone something. Just a quick check with the latest engine (rc4) and one of the latest nets:

TC: 60'' + 1''

Code: Select all

Rank Name                          Elo     +/-   Games   Score   Draws
     SF8                           120      68      60   66.7%   43.3%
   
   1 lc0_v19_11261                   0     111      20   50.0%   50.0%
   2 lc0_v19_31214                -147     128      20   30.0%   40.0%
   3 lc0_v19_9155                 -241     127      20   20.0%   40.0%
Finished match
So, run 30xxx is still ~150 Elo points below run 10xxx, and barely ~100 Elo points above 6x64 net 9155 (run 9xxx). Taking into account that the games with 6x64 net were 10-12 times faster and taking into account the hardware resources allocated, the whole run 9xxx could have been completed in less than a day. Lame runs, these newest ones. But I still hope that they will improve some 200 real Elo points over current level, although this is not granted at all.
Remember that 30xxx nets haven't had considerable LR drops, yet.

Re: Houston: We have lift off ...

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:54 pm
by chrisw
Laskos wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:56 pm
I don't know why you are so enthusiastic. Runs 20xxx and 30xxx are pretty pathetic, especially considering how much resources they have eaten up. Some folks there have overdone something. Just a quick check with the latest engine (rc4) and one of the latest nets:

TC: 60'' + 1''

Code: Select all

Rank Name                          Elo     +/-   Games   Score   Draws
     SF8                           120      68      60   66.7%   43.3%
   
   1 lc0_v19_11261                   0     111      20   50.0%   50.0%
   2 lc0_v19_31214                -147     128      20   30.0%   40.0%
   3 lc0_v19_9155                 -241     127      20   20.0%   40.0%
Finished match
So, run 30xxx is still ~150 Elo points below run 10xxx, and barely ~100 Elo points above 6x64 net 9155 (run 9xxx). Taking into account that the games with 6x64 net were 10-12 times faster and taking into account the hardware resources allocated, the whole run 9xxx could have been completed in less than a day. Lame runs, these newest ones. But I still hope that they will improve some 200 real Elo points over current level, although this is not granted at all.
is that a fact? 6x64 nets are only 100 elo below the best of the larger nets?

Re: Houston: We have lift off ...

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:16 pm
by Laskos
chrisw wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:54 pm
Laskos wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:56 pm
I don't know why you are so enthusiastic. Runs 20xxx and 30xxx are pretty pathetic, especially considering how much resources they have eaten up. Some folks there have overdone something. Just a quick check with the latest engine (rc4) and one of the latest nets:

TC: 60'' + 1''

Code: Select all

Rank Name                          Elo     +/-   Games   Score   Draws
     SF8                           120      68      60   66.7%   43.3%
   
   1 lc0_v19_11261                   0     111      20   50.0%   50.0%
   2 lc0_v19_31214                -147     128      20   30.0%   40.0%
   3 lc0_v19_9155                 -241     127      20   20.0%   40.0%
Finished match
So, run 30xxx is still ~150 Elo points below run 10xxx, and barely ~100 Elo points above 6x64 net 9155 (run 9xxx). Taking into account that the games with 6x64 net were 10-12 times faster and taking into account the hardware resources allocated, the whole run 9xxx could have been completed in less than a day. Lame runs, these newest ones. But I still hope that they will improve some 200 real Elo points over current level, although this is not granted at all.
is that a fact? 6x64 nets are only 100 elo below the best of the larger nets?
No, 250 Elo points below 10xxx run with large 20x256 net. But these 20xxx and 30xxx runs with large nets run for months with only 100 Elo points better results than small net. 20xxx is IIRC already abandoned after several LR droppings, and I think that by now the computing effort is larger than DeepMind learning effort with their enormous hardware for A0 learning.
The start of this effort with CUDA engine was much more promissing, their initial runs achieving with small resources fast and remarkable results.

Re: Houston: We have lift off ...

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:15 pm
by mclane
MikeB wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:36 pm
an amazing chart - where will it end
Its IMO unimportant. A race for elo. Quantifying instead of qualifying.

Re: Houston: We have lift off ...

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:38 pm
by peter
mclane wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:15 pm
MikeB wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:36 pm
an amazing chart - where will it end
Its IMO unimportant. A race for elo. Quantifying instead of qualifying.
Don't want to be too sophisticated, Thorsten, but "switching from quantity to quality", something we know in German even better as Friedrich Engels Dialektik der Natur, is a principal way of AI too, isn't it?
:)