PGN for the video from Daniel King here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75jerRXK5Yo
Some interesting moves : 13...Ne7, 15...f5
[pgn]
[Event "Computer Match"]
[Site "London, UK"]
[Date "2018.01.18"]
[Round "17896041660018278286"]
[White "Stockfish 8"]
[Black "AlphaZero"]
[Result "0-1"]
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Bc5 4. d3 a6
5. Ng5 Nh6 6. O-O d6
7. a4 Bg4 8. Nf3 O-O
9. h3 Bh5 10. c3 Kh8
11. Bxh6 gxh6 12. Nbd2 Ba7
13. Bd5 Ne7 14. Bxb7 Rb8
15. Bxa6 f5 16. Kh1 Ng6
17. exf5 Nf4 18. d4 Rxf5
19. Qc2 Rf8 20. Rae1 Qf6
21. Re3 Qg7 22. Rg1 Nd5
23. Bb5 Bg6 24. Qc1 Nxe3
25. fxe3 Bf7 26. Rf1 Bd5
27. Bc4 Ba8 28. a5 e4
29. Nh2 Qg5 30. b4 Qxe3
31. Ng4 Qg5 32. Qe1 h5
33. Ne3 h4 34. Be6 Bc6
35. Bc4 d5 36. b5 Bb7
37. Bb3 Rbc8 38. a6 Ba8
39. Ba4 Bb6 40. Kg1 Qg3
41. Qxg3 hxg3 42. Ra1 Rf2
43. Ndf1 Re2 44. Nf5 Rg8
45. N1xg3 Rd2 46. Rf1 Ba5
47. Rf2 Rxf2 48. Kxf2 Bxc3
49. h4 Rf8 50. Ke3 Be1
51. Ke2 Bxg3 52. Nxg3 Rg8
53. Kf2 Rg4 54. Bd1 e3+
55. Kf3 Rxd4 56. Be2 Rb4
57. Kxe3 d4+ 58. Kd2 Rb2+
59. Ke1 Rb3 60. Nh5 d3
61. Bd1 Rxb5 62. Nf4 Ra5
63. g3 Rxa6 64. Nxd3 Bd5
65. Kd2 Bf7 66. g4 Kg7
67. Nf2 Ra8 68. Be2 Ra4
69. Bd1 Rd4+ 70. Ke3 Rb4
71. Nd3 Rb1 72. Kd2 Rb6
73. Ke3 Re6+ 74. Kd2 Rd6
75. Kc3 Bg6 76. Nf2 Rf6
77. Nh3 Bf7 78. Be2 Re6
79. Kd2 Rb6 80. Nf2 Bd5
81. Bd3 Rb4 82. Bf5 h6
83. Ke3 Bf7 84. Nd3 Rb5
85. Bd7 Ra5 86. Bc6 Kf8
87. Be4 Ke7 88. Bf3 Kd6
89. Nf2 Bg6 90. h5 Bb1
91. Nd1 Bh7 92. Nb2 Ke7
93. Nc4 Ra6 94. Ne5 Kf6
95. Nd7+ Kg5 96. Be2 Re6+
97. Kf2 Re7 0-1[/pgn]
Giuoco Forte : SF8-A0, 0-1
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
-
Vinvin
- Posts: 5228
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 am
- Full name: Vincent Lejeune
-
peter
- Posts: 3186
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
- Full name: Peter Martan
Re: Giuoco Forte : SF8-A0, 0-1
Hi Vincent!
After 50.Ke3 (?):
[d]b4r1k/2p4p/P7/1P1p1N2/B2Pp2P/2b1K1N1/6P1/8 b - - 0 1
Analysis by CorChess 2.6 081218 64 POPCNT:
50...Be1 51.Bb3 Rf7 52.Bd1 Rf6 53.Ba4 Kg8 54.Ke2 Bxg3 55.Nxg3 Rg6 56.Kf2 Rg4 57.Ne2 Rxh4 58.Bb3 Kg7 59.Nc3 Rf4+ 60.Ke3 Rf5 61.Bd1 Kf6 62.Be2 Ke7 63.Na4 Rf6 64.Nc5 Kd6 65.Na4 Rh6 66.Kf2 Rh1 67.Bf1 Kd7 68.Nc5+ Kc8 69.a7 Kd8 70.Ne6+ Kd7 71.Nc5+ Kc8 72.Ke1 Rh6 73.Be2 Rf6 74.Bd1 Kd8 75.Be2 Ke7 76.Na4 Kd7 77.Nc5+ Kd8 78.Nb3 Rh6 79.Kf2 Ke7 80.Nc5 Rf6+ 81.Ke1
-+ (-2.17) Depth: 45/64 00:05:09 7227MN, tb=9469392
And after 50.Ke2 instead:
[d]b4r1k/2p4p/P7/1P1p1N2/B2Pp2P/2b3N1/4K1P1/8 b - - 0 1
Analysis by CorChess 2.6 081218 64 POPCNT:
50...Rf6 51.Kd1 Rb6 52.Ne2 Ba5 53.Ne3 c6 54.bxc6 Bxc6 55.Bxc6 Rxc6 56.g4 Rxa6 57.Nxd5 Bd8 58.g5 Kg7 59.Nef4 Kf7 60.Nc3 Bc7 61.Nfd5 Bb6 62.Nxb6 Rxb6 63.Nxe4 Rb4 64.Ke2 Rxd4 65.Ke3 Rb4 66.h5 Ke6 67.g6 h6 68.Kf4 Rc4 69.Kf3 Ke5 70.Ng3 Rc8 71.Kg4 Rc7 72.Ne2 Rc4+ 73.Kf3 Rc8 74.Ng3 Ra8 75.Kg4 Ra4+ 76.Kf3 Ra7 77.Kg4 Kf6 78.Ne4+ Ke6 79.Kf4 Ra8 80.Nc5+ Ke7 81.Ne4 Ra6 82.Kf3 Ra4 83.Nc5 Rc4 84.Ne4 Rb4 85.Ng3 Kf6
=/+ (-0.44) Depth: 48/71 00:12:17 16500MN, tb=52572123
Bigger trouble later on could have been avoided latest probably at 42.Ra1 (?), after that:
[d]b1r2r1k/2p4p/Pb6/1P1p4/B2Pp3/2P1N1pP/3N2P1/R5K1 b - - 0 1
Analysis by CorChess 2.6 081218 64 POPCNT:
42...Rxf8 43.Ndf1 Ba5 44.Nxg3 Bxc3 45.Ngf5 Bd2 46.Kh2 h5 47.Kg3 Kh7 48.Bb3 Rf7 49.Ba4 Rf6 50.h4 Rf7 51.Kh2 Rf8 52.Bd1 Rb8 53.Be2 c6 54.bxc6 Bxc6 55.Bxh5 Rb3 56.Nf1 Bc1 57.g4 Ra3 58.Bf7 Bd7 59.Bxd5 Bxf5 60.gxf5 e3 61.Ng3 Rxa6 62.Kg2 Rh6 63.Ne2 Ba3 64.Kf3 Rxh4 65.f6 Rh3+ 66.Ke4 Kg6 67.f7 Kg7 68.Be6 Rh6 69.Bd5 Rd6 70.Ba2 Bb4 71.Kxe3 Ra6 72.Bd5 Ra3+ 73.Kf4 Kg6 74.Bc4
= (-0.09) Depth: 51/64 00:16:20 21346MN, tb=44436773
Of course, game took it's decisive way much sooner already, but where, if not in opening already then?
My problem with NN- engines' games is mainly, that I even less than with A-B- ones, I can understand anything as "plans", what's going on, I see e.g. here A0 to avoid positions to get blocked or too much simplified, sooner or later blunder of SF arises and that's it.
To describe NN- play as something "human-like" seems just projection of human hoping and wishing to me, then this is case for watching SF play.
German word in psychology is Außenprojektion, don't find the English exact equivalent, meant is, to think somebody else thinks or feels something you really only think and feel by yourself and project into him or her, in our case, into engine and its play.
Chance of understanding is even less than as for A-B-engines' games, as much as I'm concerned.
In the course of Backward, the biggest eval- jump I get there:Vinvin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:25 pm PGN for the video from Daniel King here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75jerRXK5Yo
Some interesting moves : 13...Ne7, 15...f5
After 50.Ke3 (?):
[d]b4r1k/2p4p/P7/1P1p1N2/B2Pp2P/2b1K1N1/6P1/8 b - - 0 1
Analysis by CorChess 2.6 081218 64 POPCNT:
50...Be1 51.Bb3 Rf7 52.Bd1 Rf6 53.Ba4 Kg8 54.Ke2 Bxg3 55.Nxg3 Rg6 56.Kf2 Rg4 57.Ne2 Rxh4 58.Bb3 Kg7 59.Nc3 Rf4+ 60.Ke3 Rf5 61.Bd1 Kf6 62.Be2 Ke7 63.Na4 Rf6 64.Nc5 Kd6 65.Na4 Rh6 66.Kf2 Rh1 67.Bf1 Kd7 68.Nc5+ Kc8 69.a7 Kd8 70.Ne6+ Kd7 71.Nc5+ Kc8 72.Ke1 Rh6 73.Be2 Rf6 74.Bd1 Kd8 75.Be2 Ke7 76.Na4 Kd7 77.Nc5+ Kd8 78.Nb3 Rh6 79.Kf2 Ke7 80.Nc5 Rf6+ 81.Ke1
-+ (-2.17) Depth: 45/64 00:05:09 7227MN, tb=9469392
And after 50.Ke2 instead:
[d]b4r1k/2p4p/P7/1P1p1N2/B2Pp2P/2b3N1/4K1P1/8 b - - 0 1
Analysis by CorChess 2.6 081218 64 POPCNT:
50...Rf6 51.Kd1 Rb6 52.Ne2 Ba5 53.Ne3 c6 54.bxc6 Bxc6 55.Bxc6 Rxc6 56.g4 Rxa6 57.Nxd5 Bd8 58.g5 Kg7 59.Nef4 Kf7 60.Nc3 Bc7 61.Nfd5 Bb6 62.Nxb6 Rxb6 63.Nxe4 Rb4 64.Ke2 Rxd4 65.Ke3 Rb4 66.h5 Ke6 67.g6 h6 68.Kf4 Rc4 69.Kf3 Ke5 70.Ng3 Rc8 71.Kg4 Rc7 72.Ne2 Rc4+ 73.Kf3 Rc8 74.Ng3 Ra8 75.Kg4 Ra4+ 76.Kf3 Ra7 77.Kg4 Kf6 78.Ne4+ Ke6 79.Kf4 Ra8 80.Nc5+ Ke7 81.Ne4 Ra6 82.Kf3 Ra4 83.Nc5 Rc4 84.Ne4 Rb4 85.Ng3 Kf6
=/+ (-0.44) Depth: 48/71 00:12:17 16500MN, tb=52572123
Bigger trouble later on could have been avoided latest probably at 42.Ra1 (?), after that:
[d]b1r2r1k/2p4p/Pb6/1P1p4/B2Pp3/2P1N1pP/3N2P1/R5K1 b - - 0 1
Analysis by CorChess 2.6 081218 64 POPCNT:
42...Rxf8 43.Ndf1 Ba5 44.Nxg3 Bxc3 45.Ngf5 Bd2 46.Kh2 h5 47.Kg3 Kh7 48.Bb3 Rf7 49.Ba4 Rf6 50.h4 Rf7 51.Kh2 Rf8 52.Bd1 Rb8 53.Be2 c6 54.bxc6 Bxc6 55.Bxh5 Rb3 56.Nf1 Bc1 57.g4 Ra3 58.Bf7 Bd7 59.Bxd5 Bxf5 60.gxf5 e3 61.Ng3 Rxa6 62.Kg2 Rh6 63.Ne2 Ba3 64.Kf3 Rxh4 65.f6 Rh3+ 66.Ke4 Kg6 67.f7 Kg7 68.Be6 Rh6 69.Bd5 Rd6 70.Ba2 Bb4 71.Kxe3 Ra6 72.Bd5 Ra3+ 73.Kf4 Kg6 74.Bc4
= (-0.09) Depth: 51/64 00:16:20 21346MN, tb=44436773
Of course, game took it's decisive way much sooner already, but where, if not in opening already then?
My problem with NN- engines' games is mainly, that I even less than with A-B- ones, I can understand anything as "plans", what's going on, I see e.g. here A0 to avoid positions to get blocked or too much simplified, sooner or later blunder of SF arises and that's it.
To describe NN- play as something "human-like" seems just projection of human hoping and wishing to me, then this is case for watching SF play.
German word in psychology is Außenprojektion, don't find the English exact equivalent, meant is, to think somebody else thinks or feels something you really only think and feel by yourself and project into him or her, in our case, into engine and its play.
Chance of understanding is even less than as for A-B-engines' games, as much as I'm concerned.
Peter.
-
peter
- Posts: 3186
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
- Full name: Peter Martan
Re: Giuoco Forte : SF8-A0, 0-1
Sorry, too much editing one more time, here
So the correct order of outputs should have been:
After 42.Ra1 (?):
[d]b1r2r1k/2p4p/Pb6/1P1p4/B2Pp3/2P1N1pP/3N2P1/R5K1 b - - 0 1
Analysis by CorChess 2.6 081218 64 POPCNT:
42...Rf2 43.Ndf1 Re2 44.Nf5 Rg8 45.N1xg3 Rd2 46.Rf1 Ra2 47.Bb3 Rb2 48.Ba4 Ba5 49.Rf2 Rxf2 50.Kxf2 Bxc3 51.h4 Rf8 52.Ke2 Rf6 53.Kd1 Bb2 54.Kc2 Ba3 55.Kd2 Kg8 56.Kc3 Rb6 57.Ne3 c6 58.bxc6 Bb4+ 59.Kc2 Bxc6 60.Bxc6 Rxc6+ 61.Kd1 Rxa6 62.Nxd5 Ba3 63.Ke2 Bb2 64.Nf5 Ra3 65.Nf6+ Kf7 66.Nxe4 Kg6 67.Ne7+ Kh5 68.d5 Bd4 69.Kf1 Rd3 70.d6 Kxh4 71.Nf5+ Kg4 72.Nxd4 Rxd4
=/+ (-0.68) Depth: 45/75 00:09:50 12644MN, tb=2195194
And after 42.Rxf8:
[d]b1r2r1k/2p4p/Pb6/1P1p4/B2Pp3/2P1N1pP/3N2P1/R5K1 b - - 0 1
Analysis by CorChess 2.6 081218 64 POPCNT:
42...Rxf8 43.Ndf1 Ba5 44.Nxg3 Bxc3 45.Ngf5 Bd2 46.Kh2 h5 47.Kg3 Kh7 48.Bb3 Rf7 49.Ba4 Rf6 50.h4 Rf7 51.Kh2 Rf8 52.Bd1 Rb8 53.Be2 c6 54.bxc6 Bxc6 55.Bxh5 Rb3 56.Nf1 Bc1 57.g4 Ra3 58.Bf7 Bd7 59.Bxd5 Bxf5 60.gxf5 e3 61.Ng3 Rxa6 62.Kg2 Rh6 63.Ne2 Ba3 64.Kf3 Rxh4 65.f6 Rh3+ 66.Ke4 Kg6 67.f7 Kg7 68.Be6 Rh6 69.Bd5 Rd6 70.Ba2 Bb4 71.Kxe3 Ra6 72.Bd5 Ra3+ 73.Kf4 Kg6 74.Bc4
= (-0.09) Depth: 51/64 00:16:20 21346MN, tb=44436773
got the right corresponding output deleted, the one given was already after the alternative move 42.Rxf8, not fitting the dia after 42.Ra1.
So the correct order of outputs should have been:
After 42.Ra1 (?):
[d]b1r2r1k/2p4p/Pb6/1P1p4/B2Pp3/2P1N1pP/3N2P1/R5K1 b - - 0 1
Analysis by CorChess 2.6 081218 64 POPCNT:
42...Rf2 43.Ndf1 Re2 44.Nf5 Rg8 45.N1xg3 Rd2 46.Rf1 Ra2 47.Bb3 Rb2 48.Ba4 Ba5 49.Rf2 Rxf2 50.Kxf2 Bxc3 51.h4 Rf8 52.Ke2 Rf6 53.Kd1 Bb2 54.Kc2 Ba3 55.Kd2 Kg8 56.Kc3 Rb6 57.Ne3 c6 58.bxc6 Bb4+ 59.Kc2 Bxc6 60.Bxc6 Rxc6+ 61.Kd1 Rxa6 62.Nxd5 Ba3 63.Ke2 Bb2 64.Nf5 Ra3 65.Nf6+ Kf7 66.Nxe4 Kg6 67.Ne7+ Kh5 68.d5 Bd4 69.Kf1 Rd3 70.d6 Kxh4 71.Nf5+ Kg4 72.Nxd4 Rxd4
=/+ (-0.68) Depth: 45/75 00:09:50 12644MN, tb=2195194
And after 42.Rxf8:
[d]b1r2r1k/2p4p/Pb6/1P1p4/B2Pp3/2P1N1pP/3N2P1/R5K1 b - - 0 1
Analysis by CorChess 2.6 081218 64 POPCNT:
42...Rxf8 43.Ndf1 Ba5 44.Nxg3 Bxc3 45.Ngf5 Bd2 46.Kh2 h5 47.Kg3 Kh7 48.Bb3 Rf7 49.Ba4 Rf6 50.h4 Rf7 51.Kh2 Rf8 52.Bd1 Rb8 53.Be2 c6 54.bxc6 Bxc6 55.Bxh5 Rb3 56.Nf1 Bc1 57.g4 Ra3 58.Bf7 Bd7 59.Bxd5 Bxf5 60.gxf5 e3 61.Ng3 Rxa6 62.Kg2 Rh6 63.Ne2 Ba3 64.Kf3 Rxh4 65.f6 Rh3+ 66.Ke4 Kg6 67.f7 Kg7 68.Be6 Rh6 69.Bd5 Rd6 70.Ba2 Bb4 71.Kxe3 Ra6 72.Bd5 Ra3+ 73.Kf4 Kg6 74.Bc4
= (-0.09) Depth: 51/64 00:16:20 21346MN, tb=44436773
Peter.