" End of an Era" is coming?

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Robert Pope
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Re: " End of an Era" is coming?

Post by Robert Pope » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:05 pm

mclane wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:48 pm
today the machines are faster. but are they more intelligent then the software running on 1 mhz ?
For some definitions of intelligent, absolutely. There are all sorts of things we do today that are qualitatively better than in the old days, specifically because they just didn't make sense below a certain computing speed.

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mclane
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Re: " End of an Era" is coming?

Post by mclane » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:08 pm

todays cars have computers and can easily be manipulated.
old cars had no computer and are running no matter what you do.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

corres
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Re: " End of an Era" is coming?

Post by corres » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:21 pm

mclane wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:48 pm
very funny.
i do use several computers but my major concern is that the programmers rely too much on todays hardware.
To reach the maximum chess power of an engine developers should optimize the soft ware to the current hardware.
mclane wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:48 pm
yes i once had a 286-16 mhz.
what is the sense of million of million of NPS when these positions are completely irrelevant ?
they are wasted energy.
i am used to observe computerchess hardware that uses software running on 1 mhz machines.
Sometimes I use my Mephisto Lyon (clock speed 12 MHz, 16 bits, 512 KB RAM) chess machine.
Its Elo is ~2100. In its time it was a rather good machine.
But where is considering Stockfish and its 3450 Elo?
mclane wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:48 pm
today the machines are faster. but are they more intelligent then the software running on 1 mhz ?
If somebody cogitates faster he can solve more tasks.
Moreover there is a lot of trick in recent chess programs what developers could not use on an old, slow PC.
The architecture of CPU was also developed, on a PC with old CPU you can not use an engine with bit board.

Have a nice New Year's Eve!

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mclane
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Re: " End of an Era" is coming?

Post by mclane » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:28 pm

all true. but is that an answer ?

of course programming has made much progress.
but this is also been done due to hardware progress.

thomas nitsche and elmar henne had 1802 CPU with 6 mhz and 32 KB ROM and 8 KB RAM.
not MB, KB.
and nevertheless mephisto III was capable of playing chess with only 1-3 NPS.

ed schröder was capable of boosting computerchess with
6502 and similar ram and rom up to 1950 ELO.
similar with david kittinger (although 96 KB ROM) and 1950 in Superforte B/C.

so these machines could not much optimized also due to hardware restrictions.
ram and rom were limited.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

Alexander Schmidt
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Re: " End of an Era" is coming?

Post by Alexander Schmidt » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:49 pm

Try Leela with 1 visit, then you play only against its neural net. It will easily beat all the dedicated units of the past.

corres
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Re: " End of an Era" is coming?

Post by corres » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:02 pm

mclane wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:28 pm
all true. but is that an answer ?
...
I think you are tired and too pessimistic.
When one becomes old one has inclination to see the old thing better and the new thing worse.
When we lived in socialism we said (with funny) "The most important thing is the socialist realism and the unshakable belief in the dark future".
But "capitalist realism" also exists...

Damir
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Re: " End of an Era" is coming?

Post by Damir » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:30 pm

beeing socialist and Atheist as Czub is, is no wonder he is so pessimistic... :) :)

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mclane
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Re: " End of an Era" is coming?

Post by mclane » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:52 pm

first: will leela run on 1 mhz machine ?
second: does it fit into 32 KB and can it run with only 8 KB RAM ?
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

Alexander Schmidt
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Re: " End of an Era" is coming?

Post by Alexander Schmidt » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:59 pm

mclane wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:52 pm
first: will leela run on 1 mhz machine ?
second: does it fit into 32 KB and can it run with only 8 KB RAM ?
You asked for intelligent software. You can't expect anyone to develop new and more intelligent software for your 1MHz machine :wink:

corres
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Re: " End of an Era" is coming?

Post by corres » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:41 pm

Damir wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:30 pm
beeing socialist and Atheist as Czub is, is no wonder he is so pessimistic... :) :)
But a socialist or an atheist also gets old...

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