Who has garbage endgame evaluation?

[Nay Lin Tun]

Previously Leela was known as garbage in endgame, but thanks to tablebase rescoring, 30xx endgame is much improved.

Meanwhile, SF lead to this rook endgame with this evaluation +1.15. ( Gull has very good evaluation in such rook endgame and will evaluate as low as +0.23 instead)
https://ibb.co/zxrG7MC

[yanquis1972]

So I guess stockfish?

[MikeB]

Previously Leela was known as garbage in endgame, but thanks to tablebase rescoring, 30xx endgame is much improved.

Meanwhile, SF lead to this rook endgame with this evaluation +1.15. ( Gull has very good evaluation in such rook endgame and will evaluate as low as +0.23 instead)
https://ibb.co/zxrG7MC

Stockfish is designed to do one thing very well - win games against other engines. And currently, it actually plays winning endgame positions very well, as an example, KBNK on my machine, you take the longest KBNK position mate and it will play it in just few moves longer and still be under the 50 move rule ( w/o EGTB and less than 1 second increment). With respect to the scoring output, most serious users will recognize that it is inflated, it doesn't mean it is garbage, as your headline states - but it could be improved. in fact with current dev McCain, the position you linked to :

[d]8/7k/6p1/7p/1R5P/6P1/2r2PK1/8 w - - 0 1

is now scored as 1/2 half pawn lead ( although a full pawn ahead) , not perfect , but given it's score without the use of EGTB, many users will find that score acceptable as the position is obviously a dead draw

Code: Select all

dep	score	nodes	time	(not shown:  tbhits	knps	seldep)
 67	+0.52 	1.08G	9:06.55	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rd6 Ra2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Ra3+ Ke4 Ra4+ Ke3 Ra3+ Rd3 Ra2 Rd5 Ra3+ Kf4 Ra4+ Kf3 Ra3+ Kg2 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Re6 Rc2 Kf3 Kf7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kf4 Kg7 Rb7+ Kf6 Ra7 Rc4+ Ke3 Rc2 Rb7 Rc3+ Kf4 Rc4+ Kf3 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Ra7 Rb2 Rc7 Ke 
 66	+0.52 	973.6M	8:15.65	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rd6 Ra2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Ra3+ Ke4 Ra4+ Ke3 Ra3+ Rd3 Ra2 Rd5 Ra3+ Kf4 Ra4+ Kf3 Ra3+ Kg2 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Re6 Rc2 Kf3 Rc3+ Re3 Rc2 Re7+ Kf6 Re2 Rc3+ Kg2 Kf7 Re4 Kf6 Rf4+ Kg7 Ra4 Rc2 Ra7+ Kh8 Kf3 Kg8 Ke3 Kf8 Rb7 Ra 
 65	+0.52 	907.3M	7:41.16	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rd6 Ra2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Ra3+ Ke4 Ra4+ Ke3 Ra3+ Rd3 Ra2 Rd5 Ra3+ Kf4 Ra4+ Kf3 Ra3+ Kg2 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Re6 Rc2 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Ke3 Rc5 Rd6 Kf7 Rb6 Rc2 Kf3 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rd6 Kg7 Rd5 Ra2 Rc5 Rb2 Rc7+ Kf8 Ra7 Rc2 
 64	+0.52 	832.1M	7:05.05	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rd6 Ra2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Ra3+ Ke4 Ra4+ Ke3 Ra3+ Rd3 Ra2 Rd5 Ra3+ Ke2 Ra2+ Kf1 Kg7 Rd7+ Kh6 Rd6 Rc2 Re6 Kg7 Ra6 Kf7 Kg2 Kg7 Kf3 Kf7 Ke3 Kg7 Ra3 Kf6 Ra5 Kf7 Ra7+ Kf6 Kf3 Kf5 Kg2 Ke6 Ra6+ Kf7 Rd6 Kg7 Rd7+ Kh6  
 63	+0.52 	774.2M	6:36.98	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rd6 Ra2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Ra3+ Ke4 Ra4+ Ke3 Ra3+ Rd3 Ra2 Rd5 Ra3+ Ke2 Ra2+ Kf1 Kg7 Rd7+ Kh6 Rd6 Rc2 Re6 Kg7 Ra6 Kf7 Kg2 Kg7 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc5 Rd6 Rf5 Ke3 Kh6 Ke2 Kg7 Rb6 Ra5 Rb7+ Kf6 Rb4 Ra2+ Kf3 Rc2 Rb6+ Kg7 
 62	+0.52 	719.9M	6:09.80	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rd6 Ra2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Ra3+ Ke4 Ra4+ Ke3 Ra3+ Rd3 Ra2 Rd5 Ra3+ Ke2 Ra2+ Kf1 Kg7 Rd7+ Kh6 Rd6 Rc2 Re6 Kg7 Ra6 Kf7 Kg2 Kg7 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc5 Rd6 Rf5 Ke3 Kh6 Ke2 Kg7 Rb6 Ra5 Rb7+ Kf6 Rb4 Ra2+ Kf3 Rc2 Rb5 Kf7  
 61	+0.52 	674.3M	5:46.37	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rd6 Ra2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Ra3+ Ke4 Ra4+ Ke3 Ra3+ Rd3 Ra6 Rd5 Kg7 Kf3 Ra3+ Kg2 Rc3 Rd7+ Kh6 Rd2 Rc6 Rb2 Kg7 Rb7+ Kf6 Rd7 Rc2 Rh7 Ke5 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Ke1 Kf6 Kf1 Ke6 Rh8 Kf7 Kg2 Kg7 Ra8 Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 R 
 60	+0.52 	595.2M	5:06.33	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rd6 Ra2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Ra3+ Ke4 Ra4+ Ke3 Ra3+ Rd3 Ra6 Rd5 Kg7 Kf3 Ra3+ Kg2 Rc3 Rd7+ Kh6 Rd6 Kg7 Re6 Rc2 Re8 Kf7 Ra8 Kf6 Ra6+ Kg7 Kf3 Kf7 Ke3 Rc3+ Kd2 Rc5 Ke2 Rc2+ Kf3 Kg7 Rd6 Rc3+ Kf4 Rc4+ Ke3 Rc3+ Rd3 Rc 
 59	+0.52 	521.8M	4:28.07	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rd6 Ra2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Ra3+ Ke4 Ra4+ Ke3 Ra3+ Rd3 Ra6 Rd5 Kg7 Kf3 Ra3+ Kg2 Rc3 Rd7+ Kh6 Rd6 Kg7 Re6 Rc2 Re8 Kf7 Ra8 Kf6 Ra6+ Kg7 Kf3 Kf7 Rd6 Rc3+ Kf4 Rc5 Rd7+ Ke6 Rb7 Kf6 Rb6+ Kg7 Ke3 Rc2 Rb3 Kf6 Kf3 Kg7  
 58	+0.52 	412.5M	3:32.32	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Ke3 Ra2 Rd7 Ra6 Rd5 Kg7 Rd3 Re6+ Kf3 Ra6 Rc3 Ra4 Rc7+ Kh6 Rc2 Ra3+ Kg2 Ra4 Re2 Kg7 Re7+ Kf6 Rc7 Ra2 Rc6+ Kg7 Kf3 Ra4 Re6 Rc4 Kg2 Rc3 Re7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc2 Ra6 Kg7 Ra3 Kf6 Ra4 Kg7 R 
 57	+0.52 	371.2M	3:12.55	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Ke3 Rc5 Rd7 Re5+ Kf3 Rf5+ Kg2 Rc5 Rd8 Rc2 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Rd2 Rc6 Rd7 Re6+ Kf1 Rc6 Re7 Rc1+ Ke2 Rc2+ Kf3 Ra2 Re2 Ra3+ Kf4 Kg7 Re3 Ra2 Kf3 Rc2 Re6 Kf7 Rd6 Kg7 Rd5 Kf6 Ke3 Kf7 
 56	+0.52 	315.8M	2:43.82	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Ke3 Rc3+ Kd2 Rc5 Rb6 Re5 Kd3 Kg7 Rb4 Ra5 Ke2 Ra2+ Kf1 Rc2 Rb7+ Kf6 Kg2 Kf5 Rb5+ Kf6 Rb3 Kg7 Rb6 Kf7 Kf3 Kg7 Ra6 Rc4 Kg2 Rc2 Ra5 Kf7 Kf3 Kf6 Ke3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rb3 Ra6+ Kf7 Kf4 Kg7 R 
 55	+0.52 	243.4M	2:07.40	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Rd4 Rc2 Ke3 Kg7 Rd7+ Kf8 Rb7 Ra2 Rc7 Rb2 f3 Rb3+ Kf4 Rd3 Ke4 Ra3 Rb7 Ra4+ Ke5 Ra5+ Kf4 Ra3 Rd7 Rc3 Ra7 Rc5 Ke4 Rc4+ Ke 
 54	+0.52 	209.4M	1:50.37	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Rd4 Rc2 Ke3 Kg7 Rd7+ Kf6 Ra7 Rc3+ Kf4 Rc4+ Kf3 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Kf1 Ke6 Ra5 Kf7 Kg2 Kg7 Kf3 Kf6 Ke3 Kf7 Rd5 Kf6 Rb5 Kg7 Rb 
 53	+0.52 	154.0M	1:22.69	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Rd4 Rc2 Ke3 Kg7 Rd7+ Kf6 Ra7 Rc3+ Kf4 Rc4+ Kf3 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Ra5 Kf7 Ra6 Kg7 Rb6 Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Ke3 Kg7 Rb5 Kf7  
 52	+0.52 	131.8M	1:11.09	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Rd4 Rc2 Ke3 Kg7 Rd7+ Kf6 Ra7 Rc3+ Kf4 Rc4+ Kf3 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Ra6+ Kg7 Ra1 Rc3 Ra7+ Kh6 Rf7 Rc2 Rf6 Kg7 Rf3 Kh6 Ra3 Rc6  
 51	+0.52 	114.0M	1:01.93	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Rd3 Rc2 Rd5 Kg7 Rd7+ Kf6 Ra7 Rc3+ Kf4 Rc4+ Kf3 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rh7 Kf5 Rb7 Rc6 Rb5+ Kf6 Kf3 Rc2 Rb6+ Kf5 Ke3 Rc5 
 50	+0.52 	96.6M  	0:52.90	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Rd3 Rc2 Rd5 Kg7 Rd7+ Kf6 Rd6+ Kf7 Ra6 Rc5 Kf3 Rc3+ Kg2 Kg7 Ra2 Kh6 Kh3 Rc6 Rb2 Kg7 Kg2 Kf6 Rb5 Rc2 Rb7 
 49	+0.52 	81.6M  	0:44.76	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Rb7 Rc3 Kh3 Rc2 Rf7 Ra2 Kg2 Rc2 Rf6 Kg7 Rb6 Kh6 Ra6 Kg7 Ra3 Kf6 Rf3+ Ke6 Rd3 Kf6 Rd6+ Kf5 Ra6 Rc3 Ra5+ Kf6 Ra4 Rc6 Re4 Rc2 Rb4 
 48	+0.52 	74.7M  	0:41.26	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Rd6 Rc3 Kf1 Rc2 Re6 Kg7 Ra6 Kf7 Kg2 Kg7 Kf3 Kf7 Rb6 Kg7 Rd6 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Rd4 Rc3 Rd5 Rc2 Kf3 Kf7 Ke3 Ke6 Ra5 
 47	+0.52 	61.7M  	0:34.50	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Rd4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Rd3 Rc2 Rd6 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Kf1 Rc1+ Kg2 Rc3 Kh3 Rc2 Rf6 Kg7 Rf3 Re2 Rf4 Kh6 Kg2 Rc2 Ra4 
 46	+0.52 	54.3M  	0:30.71	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Rd4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Rd3 Rc2 Rd6 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Kf1 Kg7 Re6 Kf7 Ra6 Kg7 Rd6 Kf7 Kg2 Kg7 Rb6 Kh6 
 45	+0.52 	42.6M  	0:24.28	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Rd4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Rd3 Rc2 Rd6 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Kf1 Kg7 Ra6 Kf7 Ra7+ Kf6 Kg2 Kf5 Ra5+ Kf6 Ra6+ Kf7 Rd6 Rc3 Rd7+ Ke6 
 44	+0.52 	35.0M  	0:20.07	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Rd4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Rd3 Rc2 Rd6 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Kf1 Rc1+ Kg2 Rc3 Re6 Kg7 Re5 Rc2 Ra5 Kf7 Ra7+ Ke6 Ra6+ Kf7 
 43	+0.52 	31.1M  	0:17.87	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Rd4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Rd3 Rc2 Kf3 Kg7 Rd6 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Rd4 Rc3 Rd5 Rc2 Ke3 Kf6 Rd6+ Kf5 Ra6 Rc5 
 42	+0.52 	28.7M  	0:16.52	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Ke3 Rc3+ Rd3 Rc2 Kf3 Kg7 Rd6 Rc4 Re6 Rc5 Kg2 Rc3 Re3 Rc5 Re7+ Kf6 Ra7 Rc2 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 
 41	+0.52 	25.4M  	0:14.63	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Ke3 Rc2 Rd6 Rc3+ Rd3 Rc6 Rd5 Kg7 Ke4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Rf7 Rc4+ Ke3 Rc5 Re7 Ra5 Re6 Kg7 Re4 
 40	+0.52 	21.1M  	0:12.18	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Ke3 Rc3+ Rd3 Rc5 Ke4 Rc2 Kf3 Rc6 Rd5 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Kd2 Rf3 Ke2 Rc3 
 39	+0.52 	18.8M  	0:10.94	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Rd4 Rc2 Rd7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Rd4 Rc2 Ke3 Kg7 Rd3 Rc6 Rd7+ Kh6 Rd5 Rc3+ Kd2 Rf3 Ke2 Rc3 Ra5 Kg7 Ra7+ Kf6 Kf1 
 38	+0.52 	16.9M  	0:09.83	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Re6 Kf7 Re3 Rc6 Rd3 Rc2 Rd7+ Ke6 Rb7 Kf5 Rb5+ Ke6 Rb6+ Kf5 Ra6 Rc3 f3 Rc2+ Kh3 Rf2 f4 
 37	+0.52 	15.1M  	0:08.86	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Re6 Kf7 Re3 Rc6 Rd3 Rc2 Rd7+ Ke6 Rb7 Kf5 Rb5+ Ke6 Rb6+ Kf5 Ra6 Rc3 Ra7 Rc2 Ra5+ Kf6 Ra6+ Kg7 
 36	+0.52 	13.7M  	0:08.16	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Rg5 Rc4 Rd5 Rc3 Rd6 Kg7 Re6 Kf7 Re3 Rc6 Rd3 Rc2 Rd7+ Ke6 Rb7 Kf5 Rb5+ Ke6 Rb6+ Kf5 Rd6 Rc3 Ra6 Rc2 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Ke3 Rc3+ Kd4 
 35	+0.52 	9.88M  	0:05.78	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Ra6 Kg7 Ra7+ Kh6 Rd7 Rc5 Rd6 Kg7 Re6 Rc3 Ra6 Kh6 Kf1 Kg7 Ke2 Kf7 Rd6 Kg7 Re6 Kf7 Ra6 Kg7 Ra7+ Kf6 
 34	+0.52 	8.69M  	0:05.13	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Ra6 Kg7 Ra7+ Kh6 Rd7 Rc5 Rd6 Kg7 Re6 Rc3 Ra6 Kh6 Kf1 Kg7 Ke2 Kf7 Rd6 Kg7 Rd7+ Kf6 Rd3 Rc6 Ke3 
 33	+0.52 	7.67M  	0:04.51	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Ra7 Rc6 Ra5 Rc3 Ra6 Kg7 Ra7+ Kh6 Rd7 Rc5 Rd6 Kg7 Re6 Rc3 Ra6 Kh6 Kf1 Kg7 Ke2 Kf7 Rd6 Kg7 Rd7+ Kf6 Rd5 Kg7 Ra5 Kf6 
 32	+0.52 	6.70M  	0:03.92	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Rf7 Rc3 Rd7 Rc5 Rd6 Kg7 Ra6 Rc3 Re6 Kf7 Re3 Rc6 Rd3 Rc2 Rd7+ Ke6 Rb7 Kf5 Rb5+ Ke6 Kf3 Kf6 Rb6+ Kf5 Rd6 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Ke3 
 31	+0.52 	6.11M  	0:03.57	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Rf7 Rc3 Rd7 Rc5 Rd6 Kg7 Ra6 Rc3 Re6 Kf7 Re3 Rc6 Rd3 Rc2 Rd7+ Ke6 Rb7 Kf5 Rb5+ Ke6 Kf3 Kf6 Rb6+ Kf5 Rd6 Rc3+ Ke2 Rc2+ Ke3 
 30	+0.52 	5.64M  	0:03.29	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kg2 Rc2 Rb7+ Kh6 Rf7 Rc3 Rd7 Rc5 Rd6 Kg7 Ra6 Rc3 Re6 Kf7 Re3 Rc6 Rd3 Rc2 Rd7+ Ke6 Rb7 Kf5 Rb5+ Ke6 Kf3 Kf6 Rb6+ Kf5 Rd6 Rc3+ Ke2 
 29	+0.52 	4.75M  	0:02.79	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kf4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Kd2 Rf3 Ke2 Rc3 Ra6 Kf7 Rd6 Kg7 Rd7+ Kf6 Rd4 Rc6 Rd5 Rc3 Rd7 Rc6 Ke3 g5 hxg5+ Kxg5 Rd5+ Kg6 Kf4 
 28	+0.53 	2.32M  	0:01.37	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kf4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Kd2 Rf3 Ke2 Rc3 Ra6 Kf7 Rd6 Kg7 Rd7+ Kf6 Ra7 Ke6 Ra5 Kf6 Ra2 Kf5 Ra6 Rc2+ Ke1 Rc3 Kd2 Rf3 Ke2 Rc3 Rb6 Rc2+ Ke3 
 27	+0.53 	2.02M  	0:01.19	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kf4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Kd2 Rf3 Ke2 Rc3 Ra6 Kf7 Rd6 Kg7 Rd7+ Kf6 Ra7 Ke6 Ra5 Kf6 Ra2 Kf5 Ra6 Rc2+ Ke1 Rc3 Kd2 Rf3 Ke2 Rc3 Rb6 Rc2+ Ke3 Rc3+ Kd2 
 26	+0.53 	1.89M  	0:01.13	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kf4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Kd2 Rf3 Ke2 Rc3 Ra6 Kf7 Rd6 Kg7 Rd7+ Kf6 Ra7 Ke6 Ra5 Kf6 Ra2 Kf5 Ra6 Rc2+ Ke1 Rc3 Kd2 Rf3 Ke2 Rc3 
 25	+0.53 	1.80M  	0:01.08	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kf4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Kd2 Rf3 Ke2 Rc3 Ra6 Kf7 Rd6 Kg7 Rd7+ Kf6 Ra7 Ke6 Ra5 Kf6 Ra2 Kf5 Ra6 Rc2+ Ke1 Rc3 Kd2 Rf3 Ke2 Rc3 Rb6 Rc2+ Ke3 
 24	+0.53 	1.66M  	0:01.00	Kf3 Kg7 Rb6 Rc3+ Kf4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Kd2 Rf3 Ke2 Rc3 Ra6 Kf7 Rd6 Kg7 f3 Ra3 Rd3 Ra6 Ke3 Kf6 Rd5 Ra3+ Ke4 Ra6 Rd2 
 23	+0.53 	1.39M  	0:00.84	Rb7+ Kh6 Rd7 Rc3 Re7 Rc6 Ra7 Rc3 Rd7 Rc6 Rd3 Kg7 Kf3 Rf6+ Ke3 Re6+ Kd2 Rf6 f3 Ra6 Ke3 Kf6 Ke4 g5 hxg5+ Kxg5 Rd5+ Kg6 f4 Ra3 
 22	+0.53 	1.27M  	0:00.76	Rb7+ Kh6 Rd7 Rc3 Re7 Rc6 Ra7 Rc3 Rd7 Rc6 Rd3 Kg7 Kf3 Rf6+ Ke3 Re6+ Kd2 Rf6 f3 Ra6 Ke3 Kf6 Ke4 g5 hxg5+ Kxg5 Rd5+ Kg6 f4 Ra3 
 21	+0.65 	522064	0:00.30	Rb7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc2 Ke3 Rc3+ Kd2 Rf3 Ke2 Rc3 Rd7 Rc6 Rd2 Rc3 Rd3 Rc6 Ke3 Kg7 Rd2 Kf6 Ke4 Re6+ Kd5 Re5+ Kd4 Rb5 Rc2 Rb4+ Kd5 
 20	+0.65 	347907	0:00.22	Kf3 Kg7 Rb7+ Kf6 Rb6+ Kf5 Rb3 Kf6 Ra3 Kf5 Ke3 Kf6 Ra6+ Kf5 Ra5+ Kf6 Rd5 Rc6 Kd3 Kf7 Rb5 Kf6 Ra5 Rd6+ Ke3 Rc6 
 19	+0.63 	323029	0:00.20	Kf3 Kg7 Rb7+ Kf6 Rb6+ Kf5 Rb3 Kf6 Ra3 Kf5 Ke3 Kf6 Ra6+ Kf5 Ra5+ Kf6 Rd5 Ke6 Rd2 Rxd2 Kxd2 
 18	+0.56 	273238	0:00.18	Kf3 Kg7 Rb7+ Kf6 Rb6+ Kf5 Rb3 Kf6 Ra3 Kf5 Ra5+ Kf6 Ra6+ Kf5 Ra3 Rc5 Ke3 Rc2 Rb3 Kf6 f3 Kf5 Rb5+ Kf6 Rd5 Rc6 Ke4 
 17	+0.56 	239680	0:00.16	Kf3 Kg7 Rb7+ Kf6 Rb6+ Kf5 Rb3 Kf6 Ra3 Kf5 Ra5+ Kf6 Ra6+ Kf5 Ra3 Rc5 Ke3 Rc2 Rb3 Kf6 f3 Kf5 Rb5+ Kf6 Rd5 Rc6 
 16	+0.56 	214086	0:00.14	Kf3 Kg7 Rb7+ Kf6 Rb6+ Kf5 Rb3 Kf6 Ra3 Rc6 Ra5 Kf7 Ke3 Kf6 Ke4 
 15	+0.65 	177794	0:00.12	Kf3 Kg7 Ke3 Kf6 Rb6+ Kf5 Rb3 Kf6 f3 Kf5 Rb5+ Kf6 Rb6+ Kg7 Rd6 Kf7 Ke4 
 14	+0.65 	149370	0:00.11	Kf3 Kg7 Rb7+ Kf6 Rb5 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc4+ Kd3 Rc6 Ra5 Rd6+ Ke3 Re6+ Kf3 Kf7 Rc5 Rf6+ Ke3 
 13	+0.60 	122356	0:00.09	Kf3 Kg7 Rb7+ Kf6 Rb5 Kf7 Ke3 Kg7 f3 Rc6 Ke4 Kf6 Rb7 
 12	+0.62 	53028  	0:00.04	Rb7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc2 Rf7 Rc6 Kd3 Rd6+ Ke3 Re6+ Kd4 Rc6 Rf3 Rc2 Rf8 
 11	+0.77 	21276  	0:00.02	Rb7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc2 f3 Rg2 Kf4 Rc2 Re7 Rc3 
 10	+0.82 	13539  	0:00.02	Rb7+ Kg8 Kf3 Kf8 Ke3 Rc3+ Ke4 Rc2 f3 Rc3 Rd7 Ke8 Rd3 Rc2 
  9	+0.76 	9344    	0:00.01	Rb7+ Kg8 Kf3 Kf8 Ke3 Kg8 Rd7 Kf8 f3 Rg2 Kf4 Rc2 Ra7 Rc3 
  8	+0.82 	4125    	0:00.01	Rb7+ Kg8 Kf3 Kf8 Ke3 Kg8 Rb6 Kf8 Rd6 Kf7 
  7	+0.77 	2463    	0:00.00	Rb7+ Kg8 Kf3 Kf8 Ra7 Rb2 Ra6 
  6	+0.62 	1939    	0:00.00	Rb7+ Kg8 Ra7 Rb2 Kf3 Kf8 Ke3 
  5	+0.82 	696      	0:00.00	Rb7+ Kh6 Kf3 Rc3+ Ke4 
  4	+0.62 	374      	0:00.00	Rb6 Kh6 Rb7 Re2 
  3	+0.67 	192      	0:00.00	Rb7+ Kh6 Rb6 Ra2 
  2	+0.63 	71        	0:00.00	Rb6 Kh6 
  1	+0.54 	25        	0:00.00	Rb6 
  1	Found 1511 tablebases 
  0	# 

[Nay Lin Tun]

I agreed to a certain extent only. I dont mind SF saying 0.20 or 2.00 for analysis of a drawish/fortress position.

But the problem is "SF chose this rook endgame thinking that he has advantage in endgame". Meanwhile there would be +1.00 or +0.80 sub optimal lines in the middle game that SF skipped but lead to win. SF had plus one pawn since the opening and if SF see this as 0.00 in middle game and prevent the exchange of pawns/pieces in Queen side or centre , the outcome may be different.

Meanwhile, Leela exchanged all pieces and accepted this position as she is confident that she can hold.

[Uri Blass]

The position is not obviously dead draw.

It is a draw if you play perfectly but in a tournament game against humans I am going to continue with white and try to win.

I know white has a practical chance to win when black does not have practical chance to win(assuming white is not a very weak human player).

[MikeB]

The position is not obviously dead draw.

It is a draw if you play perfectly but in a tournament game against humans I am going to continue with white and try to win.

I know white has a practical chance to win when black does not have practical chance to win(assuming white is not a very weak human player).

I think depends on how one views the term "dead draw" , if the position is drawn and it takes a blunder for one side to win, that is considered "dead draw" where I come from. Your other points are valid, but this is the computer chess forum, not the players chess forum.

[jp]

Previously Leela was known as garbage in endgame, but thanks to tablebase rescoring, 30xx endgame is much improved.

If the Leela team keeps using tablebase rescoring, they should call it e.g. Lc1, not Lc0.