Komodo MCTS Progress.

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: Harvey Williamson, bob, hgm

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
Post Reply
Gary Internet
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:09 pm

Komodo MCTS Progress.

Post by Gary Internet » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:13 am

How strong is KMCTS 2273 which is currently playing in "Battle of the Leelas" on Chess.com?

I remember Mark saying in the TCEC chat a few weeks ago that 2246 that played in the TCEC Cup was roughly 25 Elo stronger than 2227 that played in the TCEC Premier Division in Season 14.

How does 2273 compare to either of those versions?

Paloma
Posts: 977
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Komodo MCTS Progress.

Post by Paloma » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:02 pm

only mark and larry will know this.

lkaufman
Posts: 4339
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Contact:

Re: Komodo MCTS Progress.

Post by lkaufman » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:08 pm

Gary Internet wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:13 am
How strong is KMCTS 2273 which is currently playing in "Battle of the Leelas" on Chess.com?

I remember Mark saying in the TCEC chat a few weeks ago that 2246 that played in the TCEC Cup was roughly 25 Elo stronger than 2227 that played in the TCEC Premier Division in Season 14.

How does 2273 compare to either of those versions?
25 elo was probably an overestimate for 2246, but for 2273 it is a reasonable figure on one or four threads. However we are now able to use the available 46 cores for 46 threads (previously we only used 32 threads) so that might be helping a bit in the chess.com event.
Komodo rules!

Werewolf
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Komodo MCTS Progress.

Post by Werewolf » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:19 pm

lkaufman wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:08 pm
Gary Internet wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:13 am
How strong is KMCTS 2273 which is currently playing in "Battle of the Leelas" on Chess.com?

I remember Mark saying in the TCEC chat a few weeks ago that 2246 that played in the TCEC Cup was roughly 25 Elo stronger than 2227 that played in the TCEC Premier Division in Season 14.

How does 2273 compare to either of those versions?
25 elo was probably an overestimate for 2246, but for 2273 it is a reasonable figure on one or four threads. However we are now able to use the available 46 cores for 46 threads (previously we only used 32 threads) so that might be helping a bit in the chess.com event.
It seems to me Komodo MCTS has a unique place in the world. There are now four possible "types" of engine:

Alpha Beta + hand-tuned Evaluation Function (99% of all engines)
Alpha Beta + NN (Giraffe only?)
MCTS + NN (Alpha Zero + Lc0)
MCTS + hand-tuned Evaluation Function (Komodo MCTS only?)

I hope you don't decide to go NN - this experiment with Komodo is very interesting.

I forget how your MCTS differs from Lc0, but I think you said there is a difference.

User avatar
CMCanavessi
Posts: 906
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:06 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Komodo MCTS Progress.

Post by CMCanavessi » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:12 pm

You forgot about Scorpio :D
Follow my tournament and some Leela gauntlets live at http://twitch.tv/ccls

lkaufman
Posts: 4339
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Contact:

Re: Komodo MCTS Progress.

Post by lkaufman » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:29 pm

Werewolf wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:19 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:08 pm
Gary Internet wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:13 am
How strong is KMCTS 2273 which is currently playing in "Battle of the Leelas" on Chess.com?

I remember Mark saying in the TCEC chat a few weeks ago that 2246 that played in the TCEC Cup was roughly 25 Elo stronger than 2227 that played in the TCEC Premier Division in Season 14.

How does 2273 compare to either of those versions?
25 elo was probably an overestimate for 2246, but for 2273 it is a reasonable figure on one or four threads. However we are now able to use the available 46 cores for 46 threads (previously we only used 32 threads) so that might be helping a bit in the chess.com event.
It seems to me Komodo MCTS has a unique place in the world. There are now four possible "types" of engine:

Alpha Beta + hand-tuned Evaluation Function (99% of all engines)
Alpha Beta + NN (Giraffe only?)
MCTS + NN (Alpha Zero + Lc0)
MCTS + hand-tuned Evaluation Function (Komodo MCTS only?)
I hope you don't decide to go NN - this experiment with Komodo is very interesting.

I forget how your MCTS differs from Lc0, but I think you said there is a difference.
Well, the details of Komodo MCTS are very different from Lc0, but conceptually it is similar except we substitute short alpha-beta searches for the NN calls. We are definitely trying out NN, but we won't switch to it unless there is a clear benefit. Theoretically, we might end up with Komodo MCTS being best for machines without a good GPU, Komodo NN (or whatever we call it) being best for those with a good GPU, and regular Komodo as well. But maintaining three separate engines is probably not very practical. We might have to make some tough decisions. Or maybe some hybrid will win out. Infinite possibilities!
Komodo rules!

dkappe
Posts: 542
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:52 pm
Full name: Dietrich Kappe

Re: Komodo MCTS Progress.

Post by dkappe » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:35 pm

Larry,

Have you tried a matchup between lc0 with 112x9 distilled net vs kmcts on 1 cpu?

Post Reply