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Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 3:22 pm
by AdminX
AdminX wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 11:26 am
I just started a 2 LTC games in Shredder GUI using LC0 JH.T8.610 and Stockfish 10 with Ponder off and Hash of 16384 each. I will post the games when they are completed.
Here is the current position from game 1 which is still in progress.

Image

Stockfish has this as winning for black, however leela does not think so. :D

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 4:39 pm
by Nordlandia
SF Dev held against Komodo 13.01!


Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 5:16 pm
by jp
Thanks, everyone.

I had a look at SF10's evals of positions in Lc0's PV (Ted's first post).
After 36 plies of Lc0's PV, SF10 evaluates the position as (-1.62), depth=31.
After 66 plies of Lc0's PV, SF10 evaluates the position as (-3.23), depth=31.

48... b3 at the end of Lc0's PV is a blunder, because it allows perpetual check.
49... Kc8 is a bigger blunder, because it loses.


Can someone look at Lc0's evals of positions in SF's PV (Ted's & Louis's posts)?

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:10 pm
by AdminX
Game 1 Done. I think Leela may have lost the draw around move 54, but Stockfish always thought it was winning. Oh well what do I know? :lol:


Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:38 pm
by jp
AdminX wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:10 pm
Game 1 Done. I think Leela may have lost the draw around move 54, but Stockfish always thought it was winning. Oh well what do I know? :lol:
By the time it's down to 7 pieces after 49. Rh3, it's lost. TBs say Black is winning with DTZ 15

1k6/8/8/1p6/7q/P6R/6PK/8 b - - 0 1

That means it was losing after Rg3.


Let's see what happens in the reverse game. If it comes down to holding endgames, maybe SF is much better at that.

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:10 pm
by jp
jp wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:38 pm
That means it was losing after Rg3.
But White needed to play 47. Rg3 to save the a pawn, which pushes the loss back to at least 46. a3.

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 3:32 am
by AdminX
Game 2 completed.


Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 10:33 am
by chrisw
AdminX wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:32 am
Game 2 completed.

after ..15 h5, it is a very different game depending on Bf5 or Bh3

Bf5 appears the AB common move, and it looks to end up more or less the same place after a few more moves.

Bh3 is LC0 move, and it maybe tries to work the e-pawn, but potentially suffers from tactical risk of g5-g4 trapping the Bh3.

If you are playing the minor piece side of an imbalanced Q-minor pieces game, then pawns, advanced pawns, blockaded pawns and pawns supporting the minor pieces in cramping positions become the important positional themes. I’ld argue that Bh3 was the positional move here, and, since it is a divergence point, worthy of initial analysis.

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 11:33 am
by AdminX
chrisw wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:33 am
AdminX wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:32 am
Game 2 completed.

after ..15 h5, it is a very different game depending on Bf5 or Bh3

Bf5 appears the AB common move, and it looks to end up more or less the same place after a few more moves.

Bh3 is LC0 move, and it maybe tries to work the e-pawn, but potentially suffers from tactical risk of g5-g4 trapping the Bh3.

If you are playing the minor piece side of an imbalanced Q-minor pieces game, then pawns, advanced pawns, blockaded pawns and pawns supporting the minor pieces in cramping positions become the important positional themes. I’ld argue that Bh3 was the positional move here, and, since it is a divergence point, worthy of initial analysis.
I see your point Chris, Thanks. I posted the game last night but did not review it until this morning.

Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 1:52 pm
by chrisw
AdminX wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:10 pm
Game 1 Done. I think Leela may have lost the draw around move 54, but Stockfish always thought it was winning. Oh well what do I know? :lol:

21 ... Qc6 is a critical point. How does white continue? Nc7, Ne7 or simply the consolidating Nc3 followed by play on the e-pawn. After Nc3 black can try g5, either straight away or after bringing a rook into play, but white has strong centre and possible e7 as well as bringing a rook to e5 and to f6 in some lines. Complicated position with SF over evaluating black.