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Three fishes vs Leela

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 12:42 pm
by Nay Lin Tun
Dont be surprised when you see a top end engine like stockfish on the bottom line, the competition field is superstrong!

Not surprisingly Leelafish is on the top!!
https://www.chess.com/computer-chess-championship

Re: Three fishes vs Leela

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 3:55 pm
by JJJ
Is Brainfish really using his book ?

Re: Three fishes vs Leela

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:10 pm
by jp
JJJ wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 3:55 pm
Is Brainfish really using his book ?
Good question. The info tab says "No opening book". I think the engines get dumped in some weird openings that are probably not in its book, anyway.

e.g. one game Brainfish loses as White begins:

Re: Three fishes vs Leela

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:20 pm
by JJJ
So it is not really Brainfish but Stockfish.

Re: Three fishes vs Leela

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:25 pm
by jp
It looks like they value entertainment over information, and they think the stranger it is the more entertaining.

Re: Three fishes vs Leela

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:27 pm
by Leo
JJJ wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:20 pm
So it is not really Brainfish but Stockfish.
Not good. I was fired up that Brianfish would see some action.

Re: Three fishes vs Leela

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:59 pm
by Uri Blass
I do not understand the name leelafish.

https://github.com/killerducky/lc0/wiki/LeelaFish

LeelaFish is a modified version of the Lc0 engine that gets help from an outside (auxiliary) engine.

There is Lc0 and another engine and the second engine does not have to be stockfish so why the name leelafish?

Did people test that second engine stockfish is significantly stronger than second engine houdini or second engine komodo?

Re: Three fishes vs Leela

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 5:31 pm
by Laskos
Uri Blass wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:59 pm
I do not understand the name leelafish.

https://github.com/killerducky/lc0/wiki/LeelaFish

LeelaFish is a modified version of the Lc0 engine that gets help from an outside (auxiliary) engine.

There is Lc0 and another engine and the second engine does not have to be stockfish so why the name leelafish?

Did people test that second engine stockfish is significantly stronger than second engine houdini or second engine komodo?
I tested, but with different parameters from default. Almost no difference using Arasan or SF_dev, both being beneficial to same degree to Lc0. With my settings, only tactical blunders were trimmed out, and it made no difference whether they were trimmed out by Arasan or SF.

Re: Three fishes vs Leela

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:09 pm
by peter
Uri Blass wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:59 pm
I do not understand the name leelafish.

https://github.com/killerducky/lc0/wiki/LeelaFish

LeelaFish is a modified version of the Lc0 engine that gets help from an outside (auxiliary) engine.

There is Lc0 and another engine and the second engine does not have to be stockfish so why the name leelafish?
So, in case of a Fish as aux-engine it should be called Fishleela, shouldn't it?

My trials with combinations of Fish and Leela show much better effect at supporting SF with Leela instead of other way round, because SF is much better at hash-learning, so if moves differ, SF is to be brought to change its mind much better as for getting points of moves and lines given in from outside of own pondering. One could argue, that might be because of moves from Leela being better more often, but that doesn't seem to be so to me as for evaluating moves along longer lines at Forward- Backward. To say it shortly, backward analysis with SF is much more effective than with Leela, if you compare time to solution and time to eval.

To talk about it relevantly, we would have to discuss certain positions always only of course.

You see that best at interactive analysis with using both engines, which of course isn't to be measured Elo- wise except at corr.-chess, but as for Nucleus I do prefer SF as master engine too. (LC0 wouldn't have to give first ply- suggestions at all anyhow as master engine in Nucleus- combi.)

Re: Three fishes vs Leela

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 7:26 pm
by corres
Leela-fish is here:
https://github.com/Zeta36/leela-fish
But it is an older version.