Stockfish and Multi-PV

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Rebel
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Stockfish and Multi-PV

Post by Rebel » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:19 am

sf-multi-pv.jpg
sf-multi-pv.jpg (35.2 KiB) Viewed 646 times
download/file.php?mode=view&id=557& ... 856ed59329

This is Stockfish Multi-pv=3 after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6

It's hard to believe that at depth 18 :

#1. d4 is nowhere in sight;

#2. h3? is the third best move.

Have seen other strange moves.
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Guenther
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Re: Stockfish and Multi-PV

Post by Guenther » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:21 am

Rebel wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:19 am
sf-multi-pv.jpghttp://talkchess.com/forum3/download/file.php?mode=view&id=557&sid=7aba7a842a1f513c9b9e21856ed59329

This is Stockfish Multi-pv=3 after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6

It's hard to believe that at depth 18 :

#1. d4 is nowhere in sight;

#2. h3? is the third best move.

Have seen other strange moves.
Which SF version (there are thousands...) and was this multi or single core?

Edit: with x times enlarging the small pic I think I can decipher 201118, is this correct?
Is this your own compilation? The naming convention of the betas is normally different since years (YYMMDDHH),
at least at the abrok SF betas site.
Last edited by Guenther on Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rebel
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Re: Stockfish and Multi-PV

Post by Rebel » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:25 am

SF10 and single thread.
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Guenther
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Re: Stockfish and Multi-PV

Post by Guenther » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:39 am

Rebel wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:25 am
SF10 and single thread.
I can confirm that behaviour. Depth 18 of course takes just one or two seconds even on my old quadcore,
but it keeps 3. d4 does not pop up even at current d26 and I am still waiting for it ;-)
Now it appeared at d27 the first time and is gone again at depth 28. At d29 3. b3 is on top.
Interesting.
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Re: Stockfish and Multi-PV

Post by Guenther » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:42 am

SF 10 1GB hash MPV=3 after 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6
(omitted all lines when PV1-3 had not the same depth in sequential order)

Code: Select all

<< info depth 19 seldepth 27 multipv 1 score cp 81 nodes 7606008 nps 623494 hashfull 53 tbhits 0 time 12199 pv f1b5 e7e6 e1g1 g8e7 c2c3 d7d5 e4d5 e7d5 b5c6 b7c6 d2d3 f8e7 f1e1 d8c7 c3c4 d5b6 d1c2 e8g8 b1c3 b6d7 c1e3 h7h6 d3d4 c5d4
<< info depth 19 seldepth 27 multipv 2 score cp 71 nodes 7606008 nps 623494 hashfull 53 tbhits 0 time 12199 pv b1c3 e7e6 f1b5 g8e7 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 a7a6 b5e2 c6d4 d1d4 e7c6 d4d3 f8e7 e1g1 e8g8 f1d1 d8c7 a2a4 f7f5 d3g3 c7g3 h2g3
<< info depth 19 seldepth 33 multipv 3 score cp 69 nodes 7606008 nps 623494 hashfull 53 tbhits 0 time 12199 pv c2c3 e7e5 f1b5 a7a6 b5c6 d7c6 e1g1 f8d6 d2d3 g8f6 b1d2 c8e6 b2b3 e8g8 h2h3 h7h6 f1e1 f6h5 d2c4 e6c4 b3c4 h5f4
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<< info depth 20 seldepth 27 multipv 1 score cp 77 nodes 10587546 nps 623090 hashfull 77 tbhits 0 time 16992 pv f1b5 e7e6 e1g1 g8e7 c2c4 e7g6 b1c3 c6d4 d2d3 f8e7 f3d4 c5d4 c3e2 d8b6 b5a4 e8g8 f2f4 d7d5 f4f5 e6f5 c4d5 f5e4 d3e4 e7f6 h2h3
<< info depth 20 seldepth 28 multipv 2 score cp 62 nodes 10587546 nps 623090 hashfull 77 tbhits 0 time 16992 pv b1c3 g8f6 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 e7e6 a2a3 d7d5 f1b5 c8d7 e4d5 f6d5 c3d5 e6d5 e1g1 f8e7 c2c4 e8g8 c4d5 c6d4 b5d7 e7c5 c1e3 d8d7 e3d4
<< info depth 20 seldepth 30 multipv 3 score cp 62 nodes 10587546 nps 623090 hashfull 77 tbhits 0 time 16992 pv d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 e7e6 b1c3 g8f6 a2a3 f8e7 d4c6 d7c6 d1d8 e7d8 c1e3 e6e5 e1c1 e8g8 b2b3 d8a5 c1b2 a5b6 e3b6 a7b6 f1e2 c8e6 b2a2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<< info depth 21 seldepth 31 multipv 1 score cp 69 nodes 16523575 nps 621280 hashfull 126 tbhits 0 time 26596 pv b1c3 e7e6 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 g8f6 a2a3 a7a6 f1e2 d7d5 c1f4 f6e4 c3e4 d5e4 d4c6 d8d1 a1d1 b7c6 e1g1 f8e7 f4e5 e8g8 e5d6 e7d6 d1d6 c8b7 d6d7
<< info depth 21 seldepth 30 multipv 2 score cp 62 nodes 16523575 nps 621280 hashfull 126 tbhits 0 time 26596 pv f1b5 e7e6 b5c6 b7c6 d2d3 d7d5 b1d2 f8e7 c2c4 g8f6 e1g1 f6d7 b2b3 e8g8 f1e1 d5d4 e4e5 d8c7 h2h3 a8b8 c1b2 h7h6 d1e2 c8b7
<< info depth 21 seldepth 29 multipv 3 score cp 52 nodes 16523575 nps 621280 hashfull 126 tbhits 0 time 26596 pv c2c3 e7e6 f1b5 d7d5 e4d5 d8d5 e1g1 g8f6 d2d3 f8e7 b1d2 e8g8 f1e1 f8d8 d2c4 h7h6 b5c6 d5c6 c4e5 c6b6 d3d4 c5d4 f3d4
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<< info depth 22 seldepth 33 multipv 1 score cp 62 nodes 24553975 nps 617399 hashfull 175 tbhits 0 time 39770 pv f1b5 e7e6 b5c6 b7c6 d2d3 d7d5 b1d2 f8e7 e1g1 g8f6 b2b3 e8g8 c1b2 f6d7 f3e5 d7e5 b2e5 f7f6 e5b2 e6e5 c2c4 c8e6 f1e1 d5d4 h2h3
<< info depth 22 seldepth 30 multipv 2 score cp 58 nodes 24553975 nps 617399 hashfull 175 tbhits 0 time 39770 pv b1c3 e7e6 f1b5 g8e7 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 a7a6 b5e2 d7d5 d4c6 b7c6 e1g1 e7g6 e4d5 c6d5 d1d4 a8b8 a2a3 d8b6 d4b6 b8b6 b2b3 f8d6 f1d1
<< info depth 22 seldepth 35 multipv 3 score cp 47 nodes 24553975 nps 617399 hashfull 175 tbhits 0 time 39770 pv c2c3 e7e6 f1b5 g8e7 d2d4 c5d4 c3d4 d7d5 b1c3 d5e4 c3e4 a7a6 b5a4 b7b5 a4c2 c6b4 c2b1 e7f5 a2a3 b4c6 e1g1 h7h6 c1e3 c8b7 e4c5 f8c5 d4c5
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<< info depth 23 seldepth 32 multipv 1 score cp 75 nodes 37635257 nps 619836 hashfull 283 tbhits 0 time 60718 pv f1b5 e7e6 b1c3 g8e7 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 a7a6 b5e2 d7d5 e4d5 e7d5 c3d5 e6d5 e1g1 f8d6 c1e3 e8g8 c2c3 f8e8 d4c6 b7c6 e2d3 f7f5 d1h5
<< info depth 23 seldepth 39 multipv 2 score cp 66 nodes 37635257 nps 619836 hashfull 283 tbhits 0 time 60718 pv c2c3 e7e6 d2d4 d7d5 e4e5 g8e7 f1d3 c5d4 c3d4 e7f5 d3c2 f8e7 e1g1 e8g8 b1c3 a7a6 h2h3 b7b5 c3e2 h7h6 c2f5 e6f5 e2f4 c8b7
<< info depth 23 seldepth 36 multipv 3 score cp 54 nodes 37635257 nps 619836 hashfull 283 tbhits 0 time 60718 pv b1c3 e7e6 f1b5 g8e7 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 a7a6 b5e2 d7d5 e4d5 e7d5 d4c6 b7c6 c3d5 e6d5 d1d4 d8e7 c1e3 e7b4 d4b4 f8b4 c2c3 b4d6 e1c1 e8e7 e2d3 c8e6 c1c2 c6c5 g2g3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<< info depth 24 seldepth 32 multipv 1 score cp 68 nodes 46214269 nps 618681 hashfull 346 tbhits 0 time 74698 pv b1c3 e7e6 f1b5 g8e7 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 a7a6 b5e2 d7d5 e4d5 e7d5 d4c6 b7c6 c3d5 e6d5 d1d4 d8e7 c1d2 e7c5 c2c3 c5d4 c3d4 f8d6 e1g1 e8g8 f1e1 f8e8
<< info depth 24 seldepth 37 multipv 2 score cp 63 nodes 46214269 nps 618681 hashfull 346 tbhits 0 time 74698 pv f1b5 e7e6 c2c3 g8e7 d2d4 c5d4 c3d4 d7d5 e4d5 d8a5 b1c3 e7d5 d1d3 f8e7 e1g1 e8g8 a2a3 f8d8 c3d5 e6d5 c1d2 a5b6 f1e1 c8e6 a1c1 e7f6 b5c6 b7c6
<< info depth 24 seldepth 35 multipv 3 score cp 59 nodes 46214269 nps 618681 hashfull 346 tbhits 0 time 74698 pv c2c3 e7e6 f1b5 g8e7 d2d4 c5d4 c3d4 d7d5 e4d5 d8a5 b1c3 e7d5 d1d3 f8e7 c1d2 d5b4 d3b1 a5b6 e1g1 e8g8 d2e3 b4d5 a2a3 h7h6 b5d3 g8h8 f1c1 d5e3 f2e3 f8d8 b1a2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<< info depth 25 seldepth 36 multipv 1 score cp 74 nodes 71060364 nps 622473 hashfull 481 tbhits 0 time 114158 pv b1c3 e7e6 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 g8f6 a2a3 f8e7 d4c6 d7c6 d1d8 e7d8 c1f4 e8g8 f2f3 f8e8 e1c1 d8b6 c1b1 e6e5 f4g3 b6c7 h2h4 c8e6 g3f2 a8d8 f2a7 d8d1 c3d1
<< info depth 25 seldepth 36 multipv 2 score cp 60 nodes 71060364 nps 622473 hashfull 481 tbhits 0 time 114158 pv c2c3 e7e6 f1b5 g8e7 d2d4 c5d4 c3d4 d7d5 e4d5 e7d5 e1g1 f8e7 b1c3 e8g8 b5d3 f7f5 a2a3 e7f6 c1e3 c6e7 c3d5 e7d5 f3e5 f6e5 d4e5
<< info depth 25 seldepth 36 multipv 3 score cp 52 nodes 71060364 nps 622473 hashfull 481 tbhits 0 time 114158 pv f1b5 e7e6 b5c6 b7c6 e1g1 g8e7 b2b3 e7g6 c1b2 d7d5 f1e1 d5d4 e4e5 f8e7 d2d3 e8g8 b1d2 d8c7 g2g3 c8a6 h2h4 f8d8 h4h5 g6f8 d2c4 a6c4 d3c4 g8h8 g1g2 a8b8
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<< info depth 26 seldepth 38 multipv 1 score cp 60 nodes 105238759 nps 622721 hashfull 640 tbhits 0 time 168998 pv b1c3 e7e6 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 g8f6 f1e2 f8b4 e1g1 b4c3 b2c3 f6e4 d4c6 d7c6 d1d8 e8d8 e2f3 e4c3 c1b2 c3d5 b2g7 h8g8 g7b2 d8e7 a1d1 f7f6 f1e1 e6e5 f3d5 c6d5 d1d5
<< info depth 26 seldepth 37 multipv 2 score cp 47 nodes 105238759 nps 622721 hashfull 640 tbhits 0 time 168998 pv f1b5 e7e6 b5c6 b7c6 d2d3 g8e7 b2b3 e7g6 c1b2 d7d5 e1g1 f7f6 e4e5 f8e7 b1d2 f6f5 g2g3 f5f4 h2h4 h7h5 f3e1 d8c7 e1g2 f4g3 f2g3 g6e5
<< info depth 26 seldepth 39 multipv 3 score cp 41 nodes 105238759 nps 622721 hashfull 640 tbhits 0 time 168998 pv c2c3 e7e6 d2d4 d7d5 e4d5 e6d5 f1d3 c5c4 d3c2 f8d6 e1g1 g8e7 f1e1 e8g8 b2b3 b7b5 b1a3 a7a6 f3e5 d6e5 d4e5 c8f5 c2f5 e7f5 d1g4 g7g6 b3c4 b5c4 e5e6
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<< info depth 27 seldepth 34 multipv 1 score cp 52 nodes 150739026 nps 623875 hashfull 802 tbhits 0 time 241617 pv b1c3 e7e6 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 g8f6 f1e2 f8b4 e1g1 b4c3 d4c6 d7c6 d1d8 e8d8 b2c3 f6e4 e2f3 e4c3 c1b2 c3d5 b2g7 h8g8 g7d4 d8e7 f1d1 f7f6 a1b1 e7f7 b1b3 e6e5 d4c5 d5f4 a2a3
<< info depth 27 seldepth 42 multipv 2 score cp 48 nodes 150739026 nps 623875 hashfull 802 tbhits 0 time 241617 pv f1b5 e7e6 e1g1 g8e7 b5a4 e7g6 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 f8e7 c2c3 e8g8 c1e3 e6e5 d4f5 d7d5 a4c2 d5e4 c2e4 c8f5 e4f5 g6h4 f5e4 d8d1 f1d1 f8d8 d1d8 a8d8 b1d2 f7f5 e4c6 b7c6 d2c4 e5e4 e3a7 f5f4
<< info depth 27 seldepth 42 multipv 3 score cp 40 upperbound nodes 150739026 nps 623875 hashfull 802 tbhits 0 time 241617 pv c2c3 e7e6 f1b5 d7d5 e4d5 e6d5 e1g1 f8d6 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 c8d7 c3c4 g8e7 c4d5 c6d4 b5d7 d8d7 d1d4 e8g8 b1c3 f8e8 c1e3 a7a6 d4d3 d6e5 a1e1 e7f5 c3e4 f5e3 e1e3 e5b2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<< info depth 28 seldepth 41 multipv 1 score cp 60 nodes 192302895 nps 624749 hashfull 891 tbhits 0 time 307808 pv f1b5 e7e6 e1g1 g8e7 c2c3 a7a6 b5a4 b7b5 a4c2 d7d5 d2d4 c5d4 a2a4 b5b4 c3d4 d5e4 c2e4 e7d5 b1d2 f7f5 e4d3 f8e7 f1e1 e8g8 d2b3 h7h6 b3c5 f8f6 a1b1 e7c5 d4c5
<< info depth 28 seldepth 43 multipv 2 score cp 55 nodes 192302895 nps 624749 hashfull 891 tbhits 0 time 307808 pv b1c3 e7e6 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 g8f6 f1e2 f8b4 e1g1 d7d6 c1g5 e8g8 c3a4 c8d7 d4b3 c6e5 d1d4 d7a4 d4b4 a4c6 a1d1 a7a5 b4d4 e5g6 b3d2 h7h6 g5f6 d8f6 d4f6 g7f6 f2f4 b7b5 g1h1
<< info depth 28 seldepth 39 multipv 3 score cp 40 nodes 192302895 nps 624749 hashfull 891 tbhits 0 time 307808 pv c2c3 e7e6 f1b5 d7d5 e4d5 e6d5 e1g1 f8d6 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 c8d7 c3c4 g8e7 b1c3 e8g8 c4d5 c6d4 d1d4 d7b5 c3b5 d8d7 b5d6 d7d6 c1f4 d6d5 a1d1 a8d8 d4a4 b7b5 d1d5 b5a4 d5e5
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<< info depth 29 seldepth 43 multipv 1 score cp 67 nodes 304377364 nps 627178 hashfull 974 tbhits 0 time 485312 pv f1b5 e7e6 e1g1 g8e7 c2c3 d7d5 e4d5 e7d5 f1e1 f8e7 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 d8c7 d4c6 b7c6 b5d3 e8g8 b1a3 e7a3 b2a3 f7f5 d1e2 d5c3 e2d2 c3d5 c1b2 c7e7 d3c4 c8b7 a1d1 f5f4
<< info depth 29 seldepth 42 multipv 2 score cp 59 nodes 304377364 nps 627178 hashfull 974 tbhits 0 time 485312 pv c2c3 e7e6 f1b5 g8e7 e1g1 d7d5 e4d5 e7d5 f1e1 f8e7 d2d4 c5d4 c3d4 h7h6 b1c3 e8g8 c1d2 d5f6 b5c6 b7c6 c3a4 d8d5 d1c2 c8a6 b2b3 e7d6 a1c1 f8d8 a4c5 d6c5 c2c5
<< info depth 29 seldepth 51 multipv 3 score cp 55 nodes 304377364 nps 627178 hashfull 974 tbhits 0 time 485312 pv b1c3 e7e6 f1b5 g8e7 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 a7a6 b5e2 d7d5 e4d5 e7d5 d4c6 b7c6 e1g1 f8e7 c3a4 d8c7 c2c4 d5f4 e2f3 e8g8 c1f4 c7f4 f3c6 a8b8 b2b3 f8d8 d1f3 f4f3 c6f3 c8b7 f3b7 b8b7 a4c3 e7b4 c3e4 b4e7
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<< info depth 30 seldepth 45 multipv 1 score cp 63 nodes 393130605 nps 625364 hashfull 991 tbhits 0 time 628642 pv c2c3 e7e6 f1b5 d7d5 e4d5 e6d5 d2d4 a7a6 b5c6 b7c6 f3e5 c8e6 e1g1 d8c7 c1f4 f8d6 f1e1 g8e7 d4c5 d6c5 e5g6 c5f2 g1h1 c7b7 g6h8 f2e1 d1e1 e8c8 b1d2 d8h8 d2b3 e7g6 f4d6 b7b6 b3c5 b6b2
<< info depth 30 seldepth 43 multipv 2 score cp 54 nodes 393130605 nps 625364 hashfull 991 tbhits 0 time 628642 pv f1b5 e7e6 e1g1 g8e7 c2c3 d7d5 e4d5 e7d5 d2d4 c5d4 c3d4 f8d6 b1c3 e8g8 b5d3 h7h6 f1e1 c8d7 c1d2 d5f6 a1c1 c6e7 f3e5 d7c6 d1e2 e7f5 e5c6 b7c6 d3f5 e6f5 e2c4 a8c8
<< info depth 30 seldepth 44 multipv 3 score cp 52 nodes 393130605 nps 625364 hashfull 991 tbhits 0 time 628642 pv b1c3 e7e6 f1b5 g8e7 d2d4 c5d4 f3d4 a7a6 b5e2 d7d5 e4d5 e7d5 d4c6 b7c6 e1g1 f8e7 c3a4 d8c7 c2c4 d5f6 e2f3 e8g8 d1c2 a8b8 c1e3 c6c5 a1d1 c8b7 f3b7 c7b7 h2h3 b7c7
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Joerg Oster
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Re: Stockfish and Multi-PV

Post by Joerg Oster » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:56 am

Rebel wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:19 am
sf-multi-pv.jpghttp://talkchess.com/forum3/download/file.php?mode=view&id=557&amp;sid=7aba7a842a1f513c9b9e21856ed59329

This is Stockfish Multi-pv=3 after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6

It's hard to believe that at depth 18 :

#1. d4 is nowhere in sight;

#2. h3? is the third best move.

Have seen other strange moves.
No big surprise, I would say.

Stockfish has no special opening knowledge (except for the PSTs),
and is known to do better with a decent opening book.
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Ovyron
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Re: Stockfish and Multi-PV

Post by Ovyron » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:09 am

Stockfish's opening analysis is horrendous. Even deep into openings, it'll believe moves that do nothing are best. This is specially true for obscure openings where not much analysis or books are available (I still remember the first time I played against the Sokolsky in a correspondence game against much weaker opponent, I was struggling hard because I wasn't prepared and all engine's analysis turned out to be poor.)

But this is great! Opening analysis is the last fun thing remaining in computer chess, there's a point in a game where today's engines easily find the best move (that can't be improved with more depth) and at that point the game has been decided. This point has been approaching the opening, but it's still far away enough, that human intervention and move choice in the opening remains critical.
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Rebel
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Re: Stockfish and Multi-PV

Post by Rebel » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:29 pm

I am disappointed, I was wondering if it made sense SF could build an opening book by itself using Multi-PV. First results (analysis time 100ms) looked promising 48.3% against the ProDeo book, 49.4% (analysis time 1000ms), now trying 2000ms but I think I am wasting my time looking at the moves it sometimes produces. Was hoping for a bug that could be fixed but looking at the responses that's unlikely.
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Rebel
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Re: Stockfish and Multi-PV

Post by Rebel » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:42 pm

Guenther wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:21 am
Edit: with x times enlarging the small pic I think I can decipher 201118, is this correct? Is this your own compilation? The naming convention of the betas is normally different since years (YYMMDDHH), at least at the abrok SF betas site.
Yes, I am using a SF10 beta version, 3 elo stronger than the official one :wink:
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MikeGL
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Re: Stockfish and Multi-PV

Post by MikeGL » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:04 pm

Amusing discovery. Seems most engines thinks black already equalizes after 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 e5 =
which equalizes, at least according to A/B engines.
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