Where are the funs of Leela?

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Dann Corbit
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Re: Where are the funs of Leela?

Post by Dann Corbit » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:58 am

If they figure out how to get GPU cards the do alpha beta, or they get GPU cards to do full recursion without wait, then the Alpha beta searcher engines will mop the floor with the NN engines, laughing all the way to the bank.
The compute cycles of the GPU cards are orders of magnitude higher than the CPU approach.
It looks like a miracle.
It's a giant nuclear pile strapped to a 1950 Ford pickup.
Beautiful, brutal, and it goes.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

Nay Lin Tun
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Re: Where are the funs of Leela?

Post by Nay Lin Tun » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:30 pm

Please check current standing of Leela in TCEC and CCC, Leela is back to no 1.
As I said before, previous tournment results were due to small sample size.

In TCEC,
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Nay Lin Tun
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Re: Where are the funs of Leela?

Post by Nay Lin Tun » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:30 pm

In chess.com,
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chrisw
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Re: Where are the funs of Leela?

Post by chrisw » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:30 pm

Dann Corbit wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:58 am
If they figure out how to get GPU cards the do alpha beta, or they get GPU cards to do full recursion without wait, then the Alpha beta searcher engines will mop the floor with the NN engines, laughing all the way to the bank.
The compute cycles of the GPU cards are orders of magnitude higher than the CPU approach.
It looks like a miracle.
It's a giant nuclear pile strapped to a 1950 Ford pickup.
Beautiful, brutal, and it goes.
a chess engine running on GPU was written some time ago, I would guess it was AB, there should be a link somewhere.

why do you suppose AB algorithm would be so good on GPU? AB is an inherently sequential algorithm, sure you can do tricks with parallelisation, or run lots of threads at once, but why would a GPU excel over, say a CPU with multi-thread capability?

For example, a standard GPU operation could be to multiply a 1000 square matrix with another 1000 square matrix, one instruction. Whoosh.
But then let’s say you’ld like to add all the 1000 cells together to give one output. That requires, or used to, last time I looked, an algorithm which add 500 cells together, then 250 cells, then 125 cells, then 64 cells, then 32 cells, then 16, then 8, then 4, then 2, then you got the answer. Not so whoosh.
GPUs are great for some things, but not all.

corres
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Re: Where are the funs of Leela?

Post by corres » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:37 pm

If there is a small difference in Elo between two engines like Stockfish and Leele with well selected hardware, opening book and time control any of the two engines can be made winner.
Even without intention too.
And somebody can make big words about it.

Uri Blass
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Re: Where are the funs of Leela?

Post by Uri Blass » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:54 am

Dann Corbit wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:58 am
If they figure out how to get GPU cards the do alpha beta, or they get GPU cards to do full recursion without wait, then the Alpha beta searcher engines will mop the floor with the NN engines, laughing all the way to the bank.
The compute cycles of the GPU cards are orders of magnitude higher than the CPU approach.
It looks like a miracle.
It's a giant nuclear pile strapped to a 1950 Ford pickup.
Beautiful, brutal, and it goes.
I do not see contradiction between alpha-beta and NN.
from the following link
http://www.chessdom.com/alliestein-the- ... -tcec-s15/

Adam Treat said the following:

"I do think that AlphaBeta is a superior search method and that there is no reason that an AB+(eval method) engine can’t compete favorably with an MCTS+(eval method) regardless the eval method. But this is just my theory and worth very little until proven. Only the future will tell."

supersharp77
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Re: Where are the funs of Leela?

Post by supersharp77 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:25 am

Dann Corbit wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:58 am
If they figure out how to get GPU cards the do alpha beta, or they get GPU cards to do full recursion without wait, then the Alpha beta searcher engines will mop the floor with the NN engines, laughing all the way to the bank.
The compute cycles of the GPU cards are orders of magnitude higher than the CPU approach.
It looks like a miracle.
It's a giant nuclear pile strapped to a 1950 Ford pickup.
Beautiful, brutal, and it goes.

Well said Dann!! I 100% agree....."Lets Compare Apples With Apples and Oranges with Oranges..Shall We?" :D :wink:

corres
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Location: hungary

Re: Where are the funs of Leela?

Post by corres » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:32 am

CCC 9: The Gaunlet Final
Stockfish : Leelenstein(!) = 34 : 32 after 66 games.
So where is Leela?
This match also proves on appropriate hardware Stockfish and their developers can keep step with NN engines.
From these competitions we, the user of chess engines gain the most.
Thanks for every each team!

Nay Lin Tun
Posts: 501
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:34 am

Re: Where are the funs of Leela?

Post by Nay Lin Tun » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:49 pm

Leela is overhyped cos she plays beautiful chess , like resurrected Paul Morphy or Tal with steroid!!

First she sacrificed one pawn, then two pawns, and then one piece!

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