Draw or Black win?

[Graham Banks]

White to move.

[Graham Banks]

Shouldn't take too much figuring out.

[xr_a_y]

Minic is seeing a growing score for black quite fast. SF too ...
But I cannot get better than -4 in less than 3 minutes or so.

Code: Select all

41 -402 20249 514585794 55 2541 229273	d3c4 f5g4 b2b4 a4b3 c4b3 g4g3 a3a4 e6e5 b3c2 e5e4 a4a5 e4e3 c2d3 g3f3 a5a6 e3e2 a6a7 e2e1q a7a8q f3g3 d3d4 e1f2 d4c4 g3h4 a8e4 h4g5 e4e5 f2f5 e5e7 g5g4 e7e2 f5f3 e2e1 g6g5 c4b5 h5h4 e1g1 g4f4 g1d4 f4g3 d4g1 f3g2 

This is hard because in many many lines both color promote to queen so this is a delaying check hell.

I'll let it search deeper today ...

[Graham Banks]

I have one engine that thinks it's a dead draw and another that thinks Black is winning.

[xr_a_y]

I have a deeper PV and a bigger score now

Code: Select all

50 -513 422007 11752177440 66 2784 5044055	d3c4 e6e5 b2b4 a4b3 c4b3 f5g4 a3a4 e5e4 a4a5 e4e3 a5a6 e3e2 a6a7 g4g3 a7a8q e2e1q a8d8 g3h3 d8d7 h3h4 d7d8 h4g3 d8d3 g3g2 b3a4 g6g5 d3f5 e1d1 a4a5 d1d8 a5b4 d8d6 b4c3 d6f4 f5e6 h5h4 e6g6 f4h2 g6c2 g2h3 c2b1 h2f4 b1h1 h3g4 h1b1 f4f3 c3d2 g4h3 b1h7 h3g4

[Sven]

I have one engine that thinks it's a dead draw and another that thinks Black is winning.

Which engine thinks it's a dead draw? POS?

I tested with SF and Jumbo, both say Black is clearly winning.

[Graham Banks]

I have one engine that thinks it's a dead draw and another that thinks Black is winning.

Which engine thinks it's a dead draw? POS?

I tested with SF and Jumbo, both say Black is clearly winning.

I don't wish to embarrass the author, but it is just below the top twelve.

[xr_a_y]

Well, soon there are 2 queens on the board, yes black is ahead, but it is very hard to avoid perpetual, or at least very very long delaying checks

https://lichess.org/analysis/standard/8 ... -_-_0_1#27

Evaluation of the position is not that simple.

But I guess if two engines plays the game for real, black always win even at short TC.

[xr_a_y]

Here's what it takes, Minic versus Minic @ 40/20sec.

Mate in 50

[pgn] [FEN "8/8/4p1p1/5k1p/p1p4P/P2K2P1/1P6/8 w - - 0 1"] 1. Kxc4 {+0,53/23} Kg4 {+0,89/27} 2. b4 {-0,97/27} axb3 {+0,89/25} 3. Kxb3 {-0,93/26} Kxg3 {+1,38/23} 4. a4 {-2,54/23} e5 {+2,31/23} 5. a5 {-3,00/22} e4 {+2,31/21} 6. a6 {-2,96/24} e3 {+3,28/26} 7. a7 {-3,25/21} e2 {+3,28/24} 8. a8=Q {-3,09/19} e1=Q {+3,32/21} 9. Qd8 {-3,17/20} Kh3 {+3,35/21} 10. Qf6 {-3,40/19} Qxh4 {+3,37/21} 11. Qf1+ {-3,41/18} Kh2 {+3,37/20} 12. Qe2+ {-3,74/17} Kg1 {+3,59/20} 13. Qd1+ {-3,80/19} Kg2 {+3,75/20} 14. Qd5+ {-3,92/20} Kh2 {+3,82/19} 15. Qd2+ {-3,94/19} Kh3 {+3,90/20} 16. Qd7+ {-4,08/19} Qg4 {+4,08/19} 17. Qc6 {-4,14/18} g5 {+4,09/19} 18. Qh1+ {-4,34/20} Kg3 {+4,18/15} 19. Qg1+ {-4,37/19} Kh4 {+4,33/18} 20. Qc5 {-4,51/17} Kh3 {+4,52/18} 21. Qc6 {-4,66/17} Qf4 {+4,58/17} 22. Qh1+ {-4,67/18} Kg4 {+4,80/21} 23. Kb2 {-4,79/17} Qf3 {+4,84/22} 24. Qh2 {-4,85/18} h4 {+5,06/18} 25. Ka2 {-5,34/17} h3 {+5,68/20} 26. Qd6 {-5,91/20} Qf2+ {+5,70/19} 27. Ka1 {-20,19/21} h2 {+11,96/20} 28. Qe6+ {-20,99/23} Kh5 {+13,12/18} 29. Qh3+ {-20,06/20} Kg6 {+13,12/19} 30. Qd3+ {-20,83/24} Qf5 {+20,22/18} 31. Qd1 {-21,21/23} Qf6+ {+21,81/22} 32. Kb1 {-21,21/23} Qb6+ {+99,46/8} 33. Kc1 {-21,21/21} Qc6+ {+99,62/7} 34. Kd2 {-21,21/22} Qd7+ {+99,84/9} 35. Ke2 {-21,21/22} Qxd1+ {+99,90/10} 36. Kxd1 {-21,21/24} h1=Q+ {+99,89/10} 37. Kc2 {-21,37/21} Qh3 {+99,87/10} 38. Kb2 {-21,70/23} Qd3 {+99,90/10} 39. Kc1 {-99,91/8} Kg7 {+99,92/9} 40. Kb2 {-21,59/16} Qe3 {+99,92/9} 41. Kc2 {-21,81/17} Kg6 {+99,92/9} 42. Kb2 {-99,89/11} Kf6 {+99,92/9} 43. Ka2 {-99,91/10} Kg7 {+99,92/9} 44. Kb2 {-99,89/11} Qd3 {+99,92/9} 45. Kc1 {-99,91/10} Qe2 {+99,92/8} 46. Kb1 {-99,91/10} Qf2 {+99,92/9} 47. Ka1 {-99,91/9} g4 {+99,92/10} 48. Kb1 {-99,93/13} g3 {+99,94/58} 49. Ka1 {-99,95/121} g2 {+99,96/58} 50. Kb1 {-99,97/121} g1=Q# {+99,98/58} [/pgn]

[Uri Blass]

win for black

[d]8/8/4p1p1/7p/7P/PK4k1/8/8 w - - 0 4


This position is a loss for white based on the 7 piece tablebases and white has no good alternative to this position.