You completely missunderstood. We are talking about move choices after 2-4 moves not about 2-4 move choices, sigh...Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:52 pmMost chess positions have 2 to 4 good choices.Guenther wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:43 pmIt is totally relevant because with only 2! up to 4 moves you are left with much too much equal moves, which are just a matter of taste/style.Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:35 pmI think it is completely irrelevant where you start. A fully closed position is difficult, like locked positions, but some computers can find good answers.
2-4 moves is the current discussion for OKE, it is incomprehensible for me how you can dispute about this.
The whole discussion lacks of logic as most threads here, thus I leave it here.
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OKE - Opening Knowledge Engines
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Re: OKE - Opening Knowledge Engines
https://rwbc-chess.de
trollwatch:
Talkchess nowadays is a joke - it is full of trolls/idiots/people stuck in the pleistocene > 80% of the posts fall into this category...
trollwatch:
Talkchess nowadays is a joke - it is full of trolls/idiots/people stuck in the pleistocene > 80% of the posts fall into this category...
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Re: OKE - Opening Knowledge Engines
My programs emit this:
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - bm c4=10; e4=9; d4=9; Nf3=6; e3=3; g3=3;
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - bm c4=10; e4=9; d4=9; Nf3=6; e3=3; g3=3;
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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Re: OKE - Opening Knowledge Engines
One of us has completely misunderstood.Guenther wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:17 pmYou completely missunderstood. We are talking about move choices after 2-4 moves not about 2-4 move choices, sigh...Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:52 pmMost chess positions have 2 to 4 good choices.Guenther wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:43 pmIt is totally relevant because with only 2! up to 4 moves you are left with much too much equal moves, which are just a matter of taste/style.Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:35 pmI think it is completely irrelevant where you start. A fully closed position is difficult, like locked positions, but some computers can find good answers.
2-4 moves is the current discussion for OKE, it is incomprehensible for me how you can dispute about this.
The whole discussion lacks of logic as most threads here, thus I leave it here.
...
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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Re: OKE - Opening Knowledge Engines
I have built a database using a slightly modified SF to adjust MultiPV depending on shallow search results.
It now has about 2 billion unique positions, each analyzed with depth >=22 and MultiPV >=5, my experience is that eventually which engine or parameters you use becomes irrelevant - it converges to statistics sooner or later.
One thing important to avoid is "double" selection bias: human games or most game sets are not well distributed among all openings.
It now has about 2 billion unique positions, each analyzed with depth >=22 and MultiPV >=5, my experience is that eventually which engine or parameters you use becomes irrelevant - it converges to statistics sooner or later.
One thing important to avoid is "double" selection bias: human games or most game sets are not well distributed among all openings.
Last edited by noobpwnftw on Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OKE - Opening Knowledge Engines
Only two positions in the EPD files actually have valid e.p. tags.
[d]rnbqkbnr/1p1ppppp/8/pPp5/8/8/P1PPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq c6
[d]rnbqkbnr/p2ppppp/8/1Pp5/8/8/PP1PPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq c6
All the others are spurious. Because of this, there are more than 1380 duplicates in the file.
About 18% are duplicates.
[d]rnbqkbnr/1p1ppppp/8/pPp5/8/8/P1PPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq c6
[d]rnbqkbnr/p2ppppp/8/1Pp5/8/8/PP1PPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq c6
All the others are spurious. Because of this, there are more than 1380 duplicates in the file.
About 18% are duplicates.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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Re: OKE - Opening Knowledge Engines
This one is strange, it is a mate in 2:
[d]rnbqkbnr/pppp1ppp/8/4p3/8/5P1P/PPPPP1P1/RNBQKBNR b KQkq -
Qh4+ g3 Qxg3#
It's a variant on the fool's mate.
[d]rnbqkbnr/pppp1ppp/8/4p3/8/5P1P/PPPPP1P1/RNBQKBNR b KQkq -
Qh4+ g3 Qxg3#
It's a variant on the fool's mate.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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Re: OKE - Opening Knowledge Engines
With over a billion positions analyzed, you can backsolve.noobpwnftw wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:39 pm I have built a database using a slightly modified SF to adjust MultiPV depending on shallow search results.
It now has about 2 billion unique positions, each analyzed with depth >=22 and MultiPV >=5, my experience is that eventually which engine or parameters you use becomes irrelevant - it converges to statistics sooner or later.
One thing important to avoid is "double" selection bias: human games or most game sets are not well distributed among all openings.
The depth value at the root will be approximately 22 + distance to leaf, (unless the root depth is already greater than this).
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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Re: OKE - Opening Knowledge Engines
Indeed, but there is still a horizon problem, although the chances of getting something wrong diminishes when depth goes higher.The depth value at the root will be approximately 22 + (distance to leaf).
The search breadth should be considerably wider than vanilla search from root position due to MultiPV at each child.
I use averaging back-propagation of engine eval to refine statistics of each move.
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Re: OKE - Opening Knowledge Engines
Have you done this for European chess or only for Xianqui?noobpwnftw wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:00 pmIndeed, but there is still a horizon problem, although the chances of getting something wrong diminishes when depth goes higher.The depth value at the root will be approximately 22 + (distance to leaf).
The search breadth should be considerably wider than vanilla search from root position due to MultiPV at each child.
I use averaging back-propagation of engine eval to refine statistics of each move.
I guess it would make a book that would destroy the Cerebellum version.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
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Re: OKE - Opening Knowledge Engines
I have done both, although I have yet to make an user interface for Chess - online probing via API is already available.Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:04 pmHave you done this for European chess or only for Xianqui?noobpwnftw wrote: ↑Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:00 pmIndeed, but there is still a horizon problem, although the chances of getting something wrong diminishes when depth goes higher.The depth value at the root will be approximately 22 + (distance to leaf).
The search breadth should be considerably wider than vanilla search from root position due to MultiPV at each child.
I use averaging back-propagation of engine eval to refine statistics of each move.
I guess it would make a book that would destroy the Cerebellum version.