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Re: buying a new computer

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:09 pm
by MikeB
Joost Buijs wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:56 pm
ouachita wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:06 pm
cma6 wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:04 am
Would it not be much better to wait till 11-12/2019 and get a much more powerful Threadripper system?
No need to wait on new systems. The 2-year old 7980XE is still the fastest single CPU system. See Ipman.
The 9980XE is even faster because it can reach higher clocks. Maybe the 7980XE was decapped with a cooler directly onto the silicon, I don't know.
Pretty soon Intel will release the 10980XE for half the cost of the 7980XE, this processor will make the 3950X look pale in comparison.
The 9980XE is not as fast on Ipman - not sure why , and when I configure systems on line with 9980XE versus the 7980XE , the price difference was $5 - again< I do not know why. Systems with these processors and a very good GPU are in the $5 to $6K range. Not bad, this seems to be the case where if you can wait ( and I can wait as my current system benches at 25M) , you will in about 6 months, get a much better deal. The technology appears to be changing pretty rapidly now, after a CPU doldrum the last few years ( my 25M nps machine is a 2010 Mac Pro) , especially with Intel , AMD has their attention now and there seems to be pretty good battle going in where the consumer benefits. For me , I really need to get over 100M nps at cost of $5K or less, so that's what I am waiting for. It will happen, we're close now, the next wave of new CPUs should put us there.

Edit: I believe a 64 core Threadripper will do the trick if it comes out for $2k or less.

Re: buying a new computer

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:16 pm
by Joost Buijs
MikeB wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:09 pm
Joost Buijs wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:56 pm
ouachita wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:06 pm
cma6 wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:04 am
Would it not be much better to wait till 11-12/2019 and get a much more powerful Threadripper system?
No need to wait on new systems. The 2-year old 7980XE is still the fastest single CPU system. See Ipman.
The 9980XE is even faster because it can reach higher clocks. Maybe the 7980XE was decapped with a cooler directly onto the silicon, I don't know.
Pretty soon Intel will release the 10980XE for half the cost of the 7980XE, this processor will make the 3950X look pale in comparison.
The 9980XE is not as fast on Ipman - not sure why , and when I configure systems on line with 9980XE versus the 7980XE , the price difference was $5 - again< I do not know why. Systems with these processors and a very good GPU are in the $5 to $6K range. Not bad, this seems to be the case where if you can wait ( and I can wait as my current system benches at 25M) , you will in about 6 months, get a much better deal. The technology appears to be changing pretty rapidly now, after a CPU doldrum the last few years ( my 25M nps machine is a 2010 Mac Pro) , especially with Intel , AMD has their attention now and there seems to be pretty good battle going in where the consumer benefits. For me , I really need to get over 100M nps at cost of $5K or less, so that's what I am waiting for. It will happen, we're close now, the next wave of new CPUs should put us there.

Edit: I believe a 64 core Threadripper will do the trick if it comes out for $2k or less.
On Ipman I don't see benchmarks from the 9980X only from the 9990X which has 14 cores instead of 18.

The 64 core Threadripper is wishful thinking, it is never announced by AMD, I'm not sure that it will ever exist, and if it does it will certainly cost more than $2K. AMD seems to release a 24 core Threadripper in November, and maybe a 32 core next year.

My current system (6950X @ 4GHz.) also benches around 25M, and I will be very happy when the new system I am planning to build benches at 75M.

Re: buying a new computer

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:00 pm
by MikeB
Joost Buijs wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:16 pm
MikeB wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:09 pm
Joost Buijs wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:56 pm
ouachita wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:06 pm
cma6 wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:04 am
Would it not be much better to wait till 11-12/2019 and get a much more powerful Threadripper system?
No need to wait on new systems. The 2-year old 7980XE is still the fastest single CPU system. See Ipman.
The 9980XE is even faster because it can reach higher clocks. Maybe the 7980XE was decapped with a cooler directly onto the silicon, I don't know.
Pretty soon Intel will release the 10980XE for half the cost of the 7980XE, this processor will make the 3950X look pale in comparison.
The 9980XE is not as fast on Ipman - not sure why , and when I configure systems on line with 9980XE versus the 7980XE , the price difference was $5 - again< I do not know why. Systems with these processors and a very good GPU are in the $5 to $6K range. Not bad, this seems to be the case where if you can wait ( and I can wait as my current system benches at 25M) , you will in about 6 months, get a much better deal. The technology appears to be changing pretty rapidly now, after a CPU doldrum the last few years ( my 25M nps machine is a 2010 Mac Pro) , especially with Intel , AMD has their attention now and there seems to be pretty good battle going in where the consumer benefits. For me , I really need to get over 100M nps at cost of $5K or less, so that's what I am waiting for. It will happen, we're close now, the next wave of new CPUs should put us there.

Edit: I believe a 64 core Threadripper will do the trick if it comes out for $2k or less.
On Ipman I don't see benchmarks from the 9980X only from the 9990X which has 14 cores instead of 18.

The 64 core Threadripper is wishful thinking, it is never announced by AMD, I'm not sure that it will ever exist, and if it does it will certainly cost more than $2K. AMD seems to release a 24 core Threadripper in November, and maybe a 32 core next year.

My current system (6950X @ 4GHz.) also benches around 25M, and I will be very happy when the new system I am planning to build benches at 75M.
latest rumor I found

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-threadri ... set-rumor/

Re: buying a new computer

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:09 pm
by ouachita
latest rumor I found

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-threadri ... set-rumor/

I owned a 3900 for one week but sent it back. If you're looking for max kN/s, buy some other chip.

Re: buying a new computer

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:44 am
by Joost Buijs
MikeB wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:00 pm

latest rumor I found

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-threadri ... set-rumor/
Indeed, all rumors. I'm not going to wait for that, my next box will still be an Intel box. If you like to program (like I do), and you want to do something with ANN's without using a GPU, than the new Intel CPU's with AVX512-VNNI can accelerate things quite a bit. Also the slow implementation of BMI2 (PEXT/PDEP in particular) in the AMD CPU's is holding me back from buying AMD. With (PEXT/PDEP) you can do very nice things, not only in the move-generator (like some engines do), but you can gain a lot more if you use it in the evaluation function.

There is also reliability, I know from experience that Intel CPU's are very reliable, my Intel boxes are running 24/7 without any crashes or glitches for years. In the past I had a lot more problems with AMD. I used to have 2 dual AMD Opteron systems with mainboards from Tyan, and both systems died after 2 (maybe 3) years of being in use, this also holds me back from buying AMD.

Re: buying a new computer

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:01 am
by M ANSARI
One thing I learned when building my own computers ... if you want to go for the latest and greatest ... get ready to work out problems. Your BIOS will need to be updated, you might get problems with compatibility with some peripherals ... so expect a lot of firmware upgrades. Now add overclocking to that mix and things get even more problematic. Whether it is AMD or Intel, doesn't really matter ... if you want the latest and greatest be prepared to have problems that need to be worked out! If you want no headaches ... take a step back and go for one generation less that has all the little things already sorted out.

Re: buying a new computer

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:16 pm
by ouachita
M ANSARI wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:01 am
One thing I learned when building my own computers ... if you want to go for the latest and greatest ... get ready to work out problems.

Agree. Just think of all the v3 and v4 out there for E5 chips

Re: buying a new computer

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:18 pm
by ouachita
M ANSARI wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:01 am
One thing I learned when building my own computers ... if you want to go for the latest and greatest ... get ready to work out problems.
Agree. Just think of all the v3 and v3 out there for E5 chips.

Re: buying a new computer

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:41 pm
by MikeB
Another CPU to consider - November release , less than $1000

Core i9-10980XE Extreme Edition: 18 cores/36 threads; 3.0GHz base, turbo (Turbo 2.0: 4.6GHz, Turbo 3.0; 4.8GHz); $979

Re: buying a new computer

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:28 pm
by Zenmastur
MikeB wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:41 pm
Another CPU to consider - November release , less than $1000

Core i9-10980XE Extreme Edition: 18 cores/36 threads; 3.0GHz base, turbo (Turbo 2.0: 4.6GHz, Turbo 3.0; 4.8GHz); $979
The new 10th Gen I9 chips looks promising. They support 256 GB memory at 2933Mhz, more PCI 3 lanes, faster clock speeds etc. The BIG deal is that you get all this at half the cost of the 9th Gen chips. This makes them competitive. You can all thank AMD for this, as INTEL would have NEVER done this of their own accord. They were forced to do this to remain relevant!

I am glad I didn't build a new system yet. I now plan on waiting for the reviews on the new I9 chips and the 3950X and Threadrippers. Since the cost to performance ratios aren't yet know for any of these chips it's not possible to make “reasonable” comparisons yet. I personally hate INTEL since they have shown their willingness to screw their costumers every chance they get, but I'm more interested in getting the best system for the money spent so I will wait. Their are currently too many unknowns to come to any rational conclusions.

As far as the i9 9980 being slightly slower than the 7980's is due to the data passing system being changed between the two chips. Not a huge deal if you ask me. The i9 10980XE I believe will have the same “problem” if you want to call it that as the 9980 but will make up for it with faster clock speeds etc.

I doubt we will see a 64-core Threadripper anytime soon. However, 24-core and 32-core will be available. Two flavors will be available. 4-channel memory and 8-channel memory. The 8-channel memory version will solve the memory issues that the older 32-core version of Threadripper had. I'm expecting 100+M nps from a 32-core 4-channel version and maybe as high as 110M for the 32-core 8-channel version. The R9 3950 should be in the 60+M nps range.

This is of course all speculation until we get benchmarks from all the chips involved, including Intels.

If you want a high power system I suggest you wait if you can.

Regards,

Zenmastur