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Re: 237 Mn/s for Stockfish on an 2xEPYC 7742

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:10 am
by Laskos
Raphexon wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:25 am
Werewolf wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:53 pm
mehmet karaman wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:59 pm
Vinvin wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:06 pm
Werewolf wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Surpassing Deep Blue's 200 Million nps.

But 22 years later...
But now, Stockfish at 1 Mn/s is stronger than Deep Blue at 200 Mn/s. 8-)
Stockfish at 1 kn/s is stronger than Deep Blue.

Is it? I’m not sure that’s right
Stockfish should be GM level even at 100 n/s classical time control.
Probably 0.5 knps at classical time control, if my old inferrence works. Super GM level at some 5 knps.

Re: 237 Mn/s for Stockfish on an 2xEPYC 7742

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:50 am
by Vinvin
Laskos wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:10 am
Raphexon wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:25 am
Werewolf wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:53 pm
mehmet karaman wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:59 pm
Vinvin wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:06 pm
Werewolf wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Surpassing Deep Blue's 200 Million nps.

But 22 years later...
But now, Stockfish at 1 Mn/s is stronger than Deep Blue at 200 Mn/s. 8-)
Stockfish at 1 kn/s is stronger than Deep Blue.

Is it? I’m not sure that’s right
Stockfish should be GM level even at 100 n/s classical time control.
Probably 0.5 knps at classical time control, if my old inferrence works. Super GM level at some 5 knps.
I often say that Stockfish reach 2600-2700 Elo with 1 second by move on an average home machine (around 2 kn/s) or a fast phone against human on a long game (40 moves in 2h). This view set SF speed around 10 kn/s.

Re: 237 Mn/s for Stockfish on an 2xEPYC 7742

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:51 am
by MikeB
Vinvin wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:52 pm
The new EPYC 7742 runs Stockfish quite fast !
The EPYC 7502 is new as well.
All the results here : https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... 7742&num=5
I'm in ... saying my pennies now.

Re: 237 Mn/s for Stockfish on an 2xEPYC 7742

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:49 am
by chrisw
Werewolf wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Surpassing Deep Blue's 200 Million nps.

But 22 years later...
also, just for reference, first microprocessor chess programs, Z80, 6502, back in 1980, 1981 were doing around 300 nps.

Factor of about a million in 40 years by general purpose CPU/software combination.

Re: 237 Mn/s for Stockfish on an 2xEPYC 7742

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:53 am
by mehmet karaman
Werewolf wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:53 pm
mehmet karaman wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:59 pm
Vinvin wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:06 pm
Werewolf wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Surpassing Deep Blue's 200 Million nps.

But 22 years later...
But now, Stockfish at 1 Mn/s is stronger than Deep Blue at 200 Mn/s. 8-)
Stockfish at 1 kn/s is stronger than Deep Blue.

Is it? I’m not sure that’s right
Elo performance of Pocket Fritz 4 (Hiarcs 13 Engine) is 2938 elo vs. GM's and IM's at 2009 Mercosur Cup
Only 1 core, 528 mHz HTC Touch HD mobile phone.
And it searches fewer than 20 kn/s positions per second.

https://en.chessbase.com/post/breakthro ... enos-aires

Hiarcs 13.1 elo is 2874 (CCRL 40/40, 1 cpu) , Stocfish 10 elo is 3387 (CCRL 40/40, 1 cpu)
Elo difference is 513

Hiarcs 13.1 elo is 2728 (CEGT 20/20, 1 cpu), Stockfish 10 elo is 3419 (CEGT 20/20, 1cpu)
Elo difference is 691

Re: 237 Mn/s for Stockfish on an 2xEPYC 7742

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:34 am
by Vinvin
mehmet karaman wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:53 am
Werewolf wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:53 pm
mehmet karaman wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:59 pm
Vinvin wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:06 pm
Werewolf wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:59 pm
Surpassing Deep Blue's 200 Million nps.

But 22 years later...
But now, Stockfish at 1 Mn/s is stronger than Deep Blue at 200 Mn/s. 8-)
Stockfish at 1 kn/s is stronger than Deep Blue.

Is it? I’m not sure that’s right
Elo performance of Pocket Fritz 4 (Hiarcs 13 Engine) is 2938 elo vs. GM's and IM's at 2009 Mercosur Cup
Only 1 core, 528 mHz HTC Touch HD mobile phone.
And it searches fewer than 20 kn/s positions per second.

https://en.chessbase.com/post/breakthro ... enos-aires

Hiarcs 13.1 elo is 2874 (CCRL 40/40, 1 cpu) , Stocfish 10 elo is 3387 (CCRL 40/40, 1 cpu)
Elo difference is 513

Hiarcs 13.1 elo is 2728 (CEGT 20/20, 1 cpu), Stockfish 10 elo is 3419 (CEGT 20/20, 1cpu)
Elo difference is 691
Yes, maybe you are right !
1 kn/s is more than 1/1000 time handicap !
7 seconds for Stockfish (on a slow computer) and 2 hours for its opponent ! Very funny !

Re: 237 Mn/s for Stockfish on an 2xEPYC 7742

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:36 am
by Nordlandia
My oldest functioning CPU is Pentium E5200 which is obviously to new and strong at single core.

Would be fun to know how 15-20 year old CPUs do in 2019.

Alternatively Chessmaster 8 or 9 at single core.

Re: 237 Mn/s for Stockfish on an 2xEPYC 7742

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:58 pm
by Leo
It looks like 64 cores would cost $5,000.

Re: 237 Mn/s for Stockfish on an 2xEPYC 7742

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:14 pm
by dragontamer5788
Mn/s is obviously the measurement that scales best with more CPU power. So as a CPU-benchmark is concerned its the best stat to discuss.

Unfortunately, the best stat for chess programmers and chess players to discuss is Time-to-depth: all current Alpha-Beta search algorithms have a degree of "search overhead waste", where different threads may unnecessarily search some nodes. They speculatively execute nodes because the alpha/beta bounds are unknown.

As such, Chess Programmers and chess users need to measure Time-to-depth. Do these 64 cores or 128 cores actually speed up a Ply15 search? Or are all of the cores unnecessarily searching nodes because they don't have any idea of what to actually do?

Re: 237 Mn/s for Stockfish on an 2xEPYC 7742

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:19 pm
by zullil
dragontamer5788 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:14 pm
Or are all of the cores unnecessarily searching nodes because they don't have any idea of what to actually do?
Nice description of "Lazy SMP". :evil: