Ryzen 3900X

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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ouachita
Posts: 454
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Location: Ritz-Carlton, NYC
Full name: Bobby Johnson

Re: Ryzen 3900X

Post by ouachita » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:57 pm

Zenmastur wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:54 pm
Leo wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:20 pm
I have a friend like that.
Just what I thought!

He's obviously an intel Fanboy. Which means he thinks everyone should speed $2000 on an Intel CPU. At this point I think you have to be a F#&!N@ idiot to spend that kind of money on an Intel CPU to run chess engines IMHO!

Regards,

Zenmastur
LOL, I'm just trying to piss you off, which is clearly very easily done AMD fanboy
SIM, PhD, MBA, PE

Zenmastur
Posts: 412
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 6:28 am

Re: Ryzen 3900X

Post by Zenmastur » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:31 am

ouachita wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:57 pm
Zenmastur wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:54 pm
Leo wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:20 pm
I have a friend like that.
Just what I thought!

He's obviously an intel Fanboy. Which means he thinks everyone should speed $2000 on an Intel CPU. At this point I think you have to be a F#&!N@ idiot to spend that kind of money on an Intel CPU to run chess engines IMHO!

Regards,

Zenmastur
LOL, I'm just trying to piss you off, which is clearly very easily done AMD fanboy
Good luck with that...

I don't get pissed off over other peoples stupidity unless it costs me money! I doubt that you can do that. I just want to make sure that no one else believes your BS enough that it costs them money either. AND, I certainly don't want INTEL to reap any benefits from your deceptive behavior.

So tell me.... Did you actually even buy a Ryzen 3900X. I suspect you didn't and this was just a load of BS!

Regards,

Zenmastur
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Dann Corbit
Posts: 9977
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA
Contact:

Re: Ryzen 3900X

Post by Dann Corbit » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:46 am

Why don't we take a look at the Intel hardware:

This one is stock (for about $3142):
95.207.343 Intel Xeon W-3175X @3.1Ghz 56threads pop
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E1681911801 ... lsrc=aw.ds

This one is pushed way beyond the normal speed (in fact all of the 7980's in the list are pushed far past stock since 2.6GHz is the all core speed):
87.267.627 Intel Core i9 7980XE @4.8Ghz 46x104.4 36threads BMI2
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... F4EALw_wcB
So you are going to need some exotic chiller like liquid nitrogen to get those numbers.

as here we see the old 2990wx smoking the 7980 using Stockfish and Asmfish:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... 90wx&num=5
though that chip is also costly at $1694:
https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Threadripper ... 4468&psc=1
but it does not need pushing.

And the bottom graphic here shows that the very expensive AMD 7742 smokes the AMD 7601 and utterly destroys the Intel 8280 in terms of nodes per dollar with SF and AF.

Now, it is OK to like a certain manufacturer. And it is fine to spend your money however you like. But those who buy Intel in light of the current measurements should have done a cost benefit analysis because dollars per node and kilowatts per node and every other sensible measure is won by the new AMD hardware.

P.S.
I do not work for AMD and I do not work for Intel. I think both of them make good products, but the current round of parts delivered by AMD is obviously better than Intel, unless Intel gets off the pot and does something amazing in their next cycle.

I would be interested to see the cost and performance of this CPU for chess also:
https://www.huawei.com/us/press-events/ ... -based-cpu
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

Dann Corbit
Posts: 9977
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA
Contact:

Re: Ryzen 3900X

Post by Dann Corbit » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:48 am

Somehow, this link went missing:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... 2P-Summary

It has the relative cost in a graph at the bottom of the page
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

Zenmastur
Posts: 412
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 6:28 am

Re: Ryzen 3900X

Post by Zenmastur » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:19 am

Dann Corbit wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:48 am
Somehow, this link went missing:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... 2P-Summary

It has the relative cost in a graph at the bottom of the page
That is a pretty nice graph! It definitely shows the latent power of AMD's new architecture. I think most people already know that INTEL's line up is lacking. Years of abusing their customers with hugely inflated prices has taken it's toll.

On a happier note: Leaked AMD Threadripper benchmarks show that early silicon 32-core parts are absolute monsters. I think we can look forward to 100M nps with a little effort. As much as I don't like spending $2K for a cpu I would for this type of performance. I might settle for a Ryzen 9 3950X @ 60+M nps for $750. I plan on keeping what ever I buy for at least 4-years so the extra $1K for an additional 40M nps doesn't look half bad.

Regards,

Zenmastur
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Zenmastur
Posts: 412
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 6:28 am

Re: Ryzen 3900X

Post by Zenmastur » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:24 am

Dann Corbit wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:46 am

P.S.
I do not work for AMD and I do not work for Intel. I think both of them make good products, but the current round of parts delivered by AMD is obviously better than Intel, unless Intel gets off the pot and does something amazing in their next cycle.

I would be interested to see the cost and performance of this CPU for chess also:
https://www.huawei.com/us/press-events/ ... -based-cpu
You should apply for a job in AMD marketing! :D :D :D

I found new Ryzen TR 2990WX for as low as $1500. But, I would prefer the newer, less power hungry version. I live in the desert and in the summer it gets too hot and I don't want to add to an already large cooling bill. Plus for a new build, I like the best tech, with in reason.

I'm not sure about the ARM CPU's. If I were building a data center I would consider it for power/cooling reasons. For a few systems at home I think I prefer X86 cpu's. Plus I don't like the manufacture, so for me it's not something I would consider.

Regards,

Zenmastur
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

MikeB
Posts: 3380
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:34 am
Location: Pen Argyl, Pennsylvania

Re: Ryzen 3900X

Post by MikeB » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:37 pm

Zenmastur wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:19 am
Dann Corbit wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:48 am
Somehow, this link went missing:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... 2P-Summary

It has the relative cost in a graph at the bottom of the page
That is a pretty nice graph! It definitely shows the latent power of AMD's new architecture. I think most people already know that INTEL's line up is lacking. Years of abusing their customers with hugely inflated prices has taken it's toll.

On a happier note: Leaked AMD Threadripper benchmarks show that early silicon 32-core parts are absolute monsters. I think we can look forward to 100M nps with a little effort. As much as I don't like spending $2K for a cpu I would for this type of performance. I might settle for a Ryzen 9 3950X @ 60+M nps for $750. I plan on keeping what ever I buy for at least 4-years so the extra $1K for an additional 40M nps doesn't look half bad.

Regards,

Zenmastur
I agree with your assessment that the 100M nps may be the best value for a new system. Although 200 M nps is within reach , but the costs appear to be 3 to 4x of 100 M nps. Would be interested in seeing your detailed list of your most likely prospective build if you don’t mind. Copying is the highest form of flattery - obviously I value your input. Thanks !

Zenmastur
Posts: 412
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 6:28 am

Re: Ryzen 3900X

Post by Zenmastur » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:36 pm

MikeB wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:37 pm
Zenmastur wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:19 am
Dann Corbit wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:48 am
Somehow, this link went missing:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... 2P-Summary

It has the relative cost in a graph at the bottom of the page
That is a pretty nice graph! It definitely shows the latent power of AMD's new architecture. I think most people already know that INTEL's line up is lacking. Years of abusing their customers with hugely inflated prices has taken it's toll.

On a happier note: Leaked AMD Threadripper benchmarks show that early silicon 32-core parts are absolute monsters. I think we can look forward to 100M nps with a little effort. As much as I don't like spending $2K for a cpu I would for this type of performance. I might settle for a Ryzen 9 3950X @ 60+M nps for $750. I plan on keeping what ever I buy for at least 4-years so the extra $1K for an additional 40M nps doesn't look half bad.

Regards,

Zenmastur
I agree with your assessment that the 100M nps may be the best value for a new system. Although 200 M nps is within reach , but the costs appear to be 3 to 4x of 100 M nps. Would be interested in seeing your detailed list of your most likely prospective build if you don’t mind. Copying is the highest form of flattery - obviously I value your input. Thanks !
I could speculate about what I “think” is going to be available and at what prices etc. but that would make for a very long post. So, the “plain Jane” version of what I expect without too much speculation is:

1.) CPU: AMD 3nd Gen RYZEN Threadripper 3990WX 32-Core, 64-Thread, 4.4 GHz Max Boost (3.6 GHz Base), Socket sTR4 200W $1800
2.) MB: GIGABYTE X399 AORUS PRO $330 (supports 3 Nviadia GPU's or 4 AMD GPU's)
3.) RAM: G.SKILL TridentZ Series 128GB (8 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Model F4-3200C16Q2-128GTZKW $665
4.) GPU: GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 2070 Super WINDFORCE OC 3X 8G Graphics Card, 3 x WINDFORCE Fans, 8GB 256-Bit GDDR6, GV-N207SWF3OC-8GD Video Card $500
5.) HDD: 2 X WD Red 10TB NAS Hard Disk Drive - 5400 RPM Class SATA 6Gb/s 256MB Cache 3.5 Inch – WD100EFAX $250 X 2 = $500
6.) SSD: 3 X Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 2TB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDPEKNW020T8X1 $175 x 3 = $525
7.) PS: Antec HCG850 Extreme 850W Fully Modular, 80 PLUS GOLD,135mm FDB Fan, Hybrid Mode, 10 Year Warranty $135
8.) Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 SSO2 D-Type Premium CPU Cooler, NF-A15 x 2 PWM Fans $125
9.) Case: I have WAY TOO many already! But if I needed one I would choose a mesh high airflow case $150

Total cost for an all new build would be $4730. The truth be told, I already have much of what I need for this build. So for me the actual out of pocket cost would be MB and CPU. I do want a new graphics card and more memory, but I can do that any time.

You could skimp on the HDD, SDD if you are on a budget.(many people will already have HDD/SSD) If you already have RAM (even if it's slow like ddr4 2400/2666) you can make due with that until you can afford better/more. The GPU isn't too important for me. I can run Lc0 overnight to make up for a lack of speed, so even a slow GPU will work. The only reason I spec'ed a 2070 super was for the times I will want to actively analyze with NN engines.

I would expect SF to run at 106M nps or so.

Regards,

Zenmastur
Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

MikeB
Posts: 3380
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:34 am
Location: Pen Argyl, Pennsylvania

Re: Ryzen 3900X

Post by MikeB » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:29 am

Zenmastur wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:36 pm
MikeB wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:37 pm
Zenmastur wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:19 am
Dann Corbit wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:48 am
Somehow, this link went missing:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... 2P-Summary

It has the relative cost in a graph at the bottom of the page
That is a pretty nice graph! It definitely shows the latent power of AMD's new architecture. I think most people already know that INTEL's line up is lacking. Years of abusing their customers with hugely inflated prices has taken it's toll.

On a happier note: Leaked AMD Threadripper benchmarks show that early silicon 32-core parts are absolute monsters. I think we can look forward to 100M nps with a little effort. As much as I don't like spending $2K for a cpu I would for this type of performance. I might settle for a Ryzen 9 3950X @ 60+M nps for $750. I plan on keeping what ever I buy for at least 4-years so the extra $1K for an additional 40M nps doesn't look half bad.

Regards,

Zenmastur
I agree with your assessment that the 100M nps may be the best value for a new system. Although 200 M nps is within reach , but the costs appear to be 3 to 4x of 100 M nps. Would be interested in seeing your detailed list of your most likely prospective build if you don’t mind. Copying is the highest form of flattery - obviously I value your input. Thanks !
I could speculate about what I “think” is going to be available and at what prices etc. but that would make for a very long post. So, the “plain Jane” version of what I expect without too much speculation is:

1.) CPU: AMD 3nd Gen RYZEN Threadripper 3990WX 32-Core, 64-Thread, 4.4 GHz Max Boost (3.6 GHz Base), Socket sTR4 200W $1800
2.) MB: GIGABYTE X399 AORUS PRO $330 (supports 3 Nviadia GPU's or 4 AMD GPU's)
3.) RAM: G.SKILL TridentZ Series 128GB (8 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Model F4-3200C16Q2-128GTZKW $665
4.) GPU: GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 2070 Super WINDFORCE OC 3X 8G Graphics Card, 3 x WINDFORCE Fans, 8GB 256-Bit GDDR6, GV-N207SWF3OC-8GD Video Card $500
5.) HDD: 2 X WD Red 10TB NAS Hard Disk Drive - 5400 RPM Class SATA 6Gb/s 256MB Cache 3.5 Inch – WD100EFAX $250 X 2 = $500
6.) SSD: 3 X Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 2TB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDPEKNW020T8X1 $175 x 3 = $525
7.) PS: Antec HCG850 Extreme 850W Fully Modular, 80 PLUS GOLD,135mm FDB Fan, Hybrid Mode, 10 Year Warranty $135
8.) Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 SSO2 D-Type Premium CPU Cooler, NF-A15 x 2 PWM Fans $125
9.) Case: I have WAY TOO many already! But if I needed one I would choose a mesh high airflow case $150

Total cost for an all new build would be $4730. The truth be told, I already have much of what I need for this build. So for me the actual out of pocket cost would be MB and CPU. I do want a new graphics card and more memory, but I can do that any time.

You could skimp on the HDD, SDD if you are on a budget.(many people will already have HDD/SSD) If you already have RAM (even if it's slow like ddr4 2400/2666) you can make due with that until you can afford better/more. The GPU isn't too important for me. I can run Lc0 overnight to make up for a lack of speed, so even a slow GPU will work. The only reason I spec'ed a 2070 super was for the times I will want to actively analyze with NN engines.

I would expect SF to run at 106M nps or so.

Regards,

Zenmastur
Thanks Zen!

ouachita
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Ritz-Carlton, NYC
Full name: Bobby Johnson

Re: Ryzen 3900X

Post by ouachita » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:07 am

actually, the W-3175X looks even better
SIM, PhD, MBA, PE

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