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which is strongest NN network for cpu only?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:14 pm
by lkaufman
Which NN network, Lc0 or other, is currently believed to be the strongest one for use only on a CPU, no GPU? I've seen posts on this before, but this is always changing. I understand it should be a small network.

Re: which is strongest NN network for cpu only?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:56 pm
by Tibono
Hello Larry,

indeed a size balance affair, according to your CPU. Strongest on my old laptop (CPU T4500@2,3Ghz) using 1 single core is 11258-112x9-se (distilled by Dietrich Kappe). I know, it is an old one, but I could find no convincing one within more recent stuff. My associated setting: MiniBatchSize 16, MaxPrefetch 0, CPuct 1.7
Not a definite statement, but should you like to perform tests, a must include one.

Re: which is strongest NN network for cpu only?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:05 pm
by pohl4711
lkaufman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:14 pm
Which NN network, Lc0 or other, is currently believed to be the strongest one for use only on a CPU, no GPU? I've seen posts on this before, but this is always changing. I understand it should be a small network.
No doubt, that LD2 is the strongest for CPU. 10x128 built out of T40 training games.

https://lc0.org/ld2

Re: which is strongest NN network for cpu only?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:34 pm
by lkaufman
pohl4711 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:05 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:14 pm
Which NN network, Lc0 or other, is currently believed to be the strongest one for use only on a CPU, no GPU? I've seen posts on this before, but this is always changing. I understand it should be a small network.
No doubt, that LD2 is the strongest for CPU. 10x128 built out of T40 training games.

https://lc0.org/ld2
Thanks, do you happen to know what Lc0 version and what settings would be best with LD2 for CPU use? Is there any maximum number of threads that will contribute to strength?

Re: which is strongest NN network for cpu only?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:06 pm
by pohl4711
lkaufman wrote:
Thanks, do you happen to know what Lc0 version and what settings would be best with LD2 for CPU use? Is there any maximum number of threads that will contribute to strength?
The latest lc0 0.22.0, no reason to choose an older version. And when lc0 thinks on CPU only, there is no thread-limit. The more Threads/Cores the better the chess. But I did not test that with more than 8 threads/4 cores...
Recommended settings (especially on slow CPUs (Smartphones...)) are:
MiniBatchsize = 8 and MaxPrefetch = 0.

Re: which is strongest NN network for cpu only?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:24 pm
by dkappe
pohl4711 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:05 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:14 pm
Which NN network, Lc0 or other, is currently believed to be the strongest one for use only on a CPU, no GPU? I've seen posts on this before, but this is always changing. I understand it should be a small network.
No doubt, that LD2 is the strongest for CPU. 10x128 built out of T40 training games.

https://lc0.org/ld2
There is significant doubt. There's a sweet spot for CPU which depends on nps. Generally, the slower the CPU, the better 11258-112x9-se performs vs nets like LD2. Indeed, on slow Android devices, 11258-48x5-se outperforms LD2 comfortably. The best thing is to grab a few nets and test them out on your particular setup

Re: which is strongest NN network for cpu only?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:35 pm
by mesilikas
Can you recommend some settings dkappe?

Re: which is strongest NN network for cpu only?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:46 pm
by dkappe
mesilikas wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:35 pm
Can you recommend some settings dkappe?
Default should be good for starters (though a higher number of threads are useful on more powerful CPU's).

Re: which is strongest NN network for cpu only?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:02 pm
by lkaufman
dkappe wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:24 pm
pohl4711 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:05 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:14 pm
Which NN network, Lc0 or other, is currently believed to be the strongest one for use only on a CPU, no GPU? I've seen posts on this before, but this is always changing. I understand it should be a small network.
No doubt, that LD2 is the strongest for CPU. 10x128 built out of T40 training games.

https://lc0.org/ld2
There is significant doubt. There's a sweet spot for CPU which depends on nps. Generally, the slower the CPU, the better 11258-112x9-se performs vs nets like LD2. Indeed, on slow Android devices, 11258-48x5-se outperforms LD2 comfortably. The best thing is to grab a few nets and test them out on your particular setup
OK, I'll rephrase the question. What is the best network and settings for any NN on 7 threads of an 8 core, very fast i7 machine? LD2 is beating 11248 on that config by 345 elo in my current test, so the question is whether some other network is even better, and whether default settings are appropriate?

Re: which is strongest NN network for cpu only?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:17 pm
by Modern Times
lkaufman wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:02 pm

OK, I'll rephrase the question. What is the best network and settings for any NN on 7 threads of an 8 core, very fast i7 machine? LD2 is beating 11248 on that config by 345 elo in my current test, so the question is whether some other network is even better, and whether default settings are appropriate?
So how strong is LD2 on that set-up Larry ?