Strange enormous evals falling out of book at TCEC

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Dann Corbit
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Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Strange enormous evals falling out of book at TCEC

Post by Dann Corbit »

In the current TCEC game, the following position had an evaluation of down more than a pawn for AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n1 and then +77 for Stockfish 19092522 after AllieStein moved c6:
[d]rnb1kb1r/ppp1pppp/3q1n2/8/3P4/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R b KQkq -

It seemed like a really big score out of book, so I looked in my database, and I had -40 centipawns for c6.

I figured it was probably older analysis so I ran the current dev stockfish to ply 40 and got a score of -31 centipawns.

rnb1kb1r/ppp1pppp/3q1n2/8/3P4/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R b KQkq - acd 40; ce -31; acs 2170; acn 17822000; pv g6 Be2 Bg7 O-O a6 Be3 Nc6 Qd2 Bf5 Rad1 Rd8 a3 O-O d5 Nb8 h3 c6 Bf4 Qc5 d6 exd6 Bxd6 Qb6 g4 Rxd6 Qxd6 Qxb2 gxf5 Qxc3 Rfe1 Nbd7 Qb4 Qxb4 axb4 Re8 Bc4 Rxe1+ Rxe1 Bf8 c3 gxf5 Nd4 Nb6 Bb3 Nbd5 Bxd5 Nxd5 c4 Nxb4 Nxf5 ; bm g6;

Does anyone know why the initial scores out of book were so high? The SF depth was 39 so about the same as my search (albeit one ply later).

Here are the records for "still in book":

Code: Select all

rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - bm e4; ce 0; acd 1; acs 0; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - bm d5; ce 0; acd 1; acs 0; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3p4/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - bm exd5; ce 0; acd 1; acs 0; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3P4/8/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - bm Qxd5; ce 0; acd 1; acs 0; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
rnb1kbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3q4/8/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - bm Nc3; ce 0; acd 1; acs 0; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
rnb1kbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3q4/8/2N5/PPPP1PPP/R1BQKBNR b KQkq - bm Qd6; ce 0; acd 1; acs 0; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
rnb1kbnr/ppp1pppp/3q4/8/8/2N5/PPPP1PPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - bm d4; ce 0; acd 1; acs 0; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
rnb1kbnr/ppp1pppp/3q4/8/3P4/2N5/PPP2PPP/R1BQKBNR b KQkq - bm Nf6; ce 0; acd 1; acs 0; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
rnb1kb1r/ppp1pppp/3q1n2/8/3P4/2N5/PPP2PPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - bm Nf3; ce 0; acd 1; acs 0; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
here are the positions, depths and scores right after falling out of book:

Code: Select all

rnb1kb1r/ppp1pppp/3q1n2/8/3P4/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R b KQkq - bm c6; ce 105; acd 17; acs 150; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
rnb1kb1r/pp2pppp/2pq1n2/8/3P4/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq - bm Be2; ce 77; acd 39; acs 480; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
rnb1kb1r/pp2pppp/2pq1n2/8/3P4/2N2N2/PPP1BPPP/R1BQK2R b KQkq - bm Bg4; ce 94; acd 17; acs 158; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
rn2kb1r/pp2pppp/2pq1n2/8/3P2b1/2N2N2/PPP1BPPP/R1BQK2R w KQkq - bm h3; ce 85; acd 39; acs 91; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
rn2kb1r/pp2pppp/2pq1n2/8/3P2b1/2N2N1P/PPP1BPP1/R1BQK2R b KQkq - bm Bxf3; ce 92; acd 18; acs 107; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
rn2kb1r/pp2pppp/2pq1n2/8/3P4/2N2b1P/PPP1BPP1/R1BQK2R w KQkq - bm Bxf3; ce 75; acd 38; acs 124; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
rn2kb1r/pp2pppp/2pq1n2/8/3P4/2N2B1P/PPP2PP1/R1BQK2R b KQkq - bm e6; ce 92; acd 25; acs 79; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
rn2kb1r/pp3ppp/2pqpn2/8/3P4/2N2B1P/PPP2PP1/R1BQK2R w KQkq - bm g3; ce 94; acd 34; acs 75; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
rn2kb1r/pp3ppp/2pqpn2/8/3P4/2N2BPP/PPP2P2/R1BQK2R b KQkq - bm Be7; ce 91; acd 14; acs 271; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
rn2k2r/pp2bppp/2pqpn2/8/3P4/2N2BPP/PPP2P2/R1BQK2R w KQkq - bm Bf4; ce 86; acd 36; acs 114; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
rn2k2r/pp2bppp/2pqpn2/8/3P1B2/2N2BPP/PPP2P2/R2QK2R b KQkq - bm Qd8; ce 90; acd 15; acs 105; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
rn1qk2r/pp2bppp/2p1pn2/8/3P1B2/2N2BPP/PPP2P2/R2QK2R w KQkq - bm Ne2; ce 92; acd 40; acs 722; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
rn1qk2r/pp2bppp/2p1pn2/8/3P1B2/5BPP/PPP1NP2/R2QK2R b KQkq - bm Bd6; ce 88; acd 15; acs 116; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
rn1qk2r/pp3ppp/2pbpn2/8/3P1B2/5BPP/PPP1NP2/R2QK2R w KQkq - bm Bd2; ce 85; acd 39; acs 240; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
rn1qk2r/pp3ppp/2pbpn2/8/3P4/5BPP/PPPBNP2/R2QK2R b KQkq - bm Nbd7; ce 88; acd 20; acs 121; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
r2qk2r/pp1n1ppp/2pbpn2/8/3P4/5BPP/PPPBNP2/R2QK2R w KQkq - bm c4; ce 86; acd 36; acs 114; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
r2qk2r/pp1n1ppp/2pbpn2/8/2PP4/5BPP/PP1BNP2/R2QK2R b KQkq - bm O-O; ce 88; acd 17; acs 279; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
r2q1rk1/pp1n1ppp/2pbpn2/8/2PP4/5BPP/PP1BNP2/R2QK2R w KQ - bm Qc2; ce 71; acd 40; acs 228; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
r2q1rk1/pp1n1ppp/2pbpn2/8/2PP4/5BPP/PPQBNP2/R3K2R b KQ - bm e5; ce 88; acd 17; acs 206; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
r2q1rk1/pp1n1ppp/2pb1n2/4p3/2PP4/5BPP/PPQBNP2/R3K2R w KQ - bm O-O; ce 61; acd 39; acs 203; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
r2q1rk1/pp1n1ppp/2pb1n2/4p3/2PP4/5BPP/PPQBNP2/R4RK1 b - - bm Re8; ce 84; acd 19; acs 109; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
r2qr1k1/pp1n1ppp/2pb1n2/4p3/2PP4/5BPP/PPQBNP2/R4RK1 w - - bm Rad1; ce 68; acd 38; acs 103; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
r2qr1k1/pp1n1ppp/2pb1n2/4p3/2PP4/5BPP/PPQBNP2/3R1RK1 b - - bm a5; ce 81; acd 22; acs 58; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
r2qr1k1/1p1n1ppp/2pb1n2/p3p3/2PP4/5BPP/PPQBNP2/3R1RK1 w - - bm dxe5; ce 86; acd 40; acs 290; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
r2qr1k1/1p1n1ppp/2pb1n2/p3P3/2P5/5BPP/PPQBNP2/3R1RK1 b - - bm Nxe5; ce 79; acd 15; acs 128; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
r2qr1k1/1p3ppp/2pb1n2/p3n3/2P5/5BPP/PPQBNP2/3R1RK1 w - - bm Bg2; ce 75; acd 41; acs 77; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
r2qr1k1/1p3ppp/2pb1n2/p3n3/2P5/6PP/PPQBNPB1/3R1RK1 b - - bm Qb6; ce 75; acd 17; acs 87; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
r3r1k1/1p3ppp/1qpb1n2/p3n3/2P5/6PP/PPQBNPB1/3R1RK1 w - - bm b3; ce 67; acd 42; acs 101; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
r3r1k1/1p3ppp/1qpb1n2/p3n3/2P5/1P4PP/P1QBNPB1/3R1RK1 b - - bm Bb4; ce 73; acd 19; acs 66; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
r3r1k1/1p3ppp/1qp2n2/p3n3/1bP5/1P4PP/P1QBNPB1/3R1RK1 w - - bm Be3; ce 74; acd 39; acs 239; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
r3r1k1/1p3ppp/1qp2n2/p3n3/1bP5/1P2B1PP/P1Q1NPB1/3R1RK1 b - - bm Qc7; ce 71; acd 18; acs 58; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
r3r1k1/1pq2ppp/2p2n2/p3n3/1bP5/1P2B1PP/P1Q1NPB1/3R1RK1 w - - bm Nd4; ce 55; acd 40; acs 275; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
r3r1k1/1pq2ppp/2p2n2/p3n3/1bPN4/1P2B1PP/P1Q2PB1/3R1RK1 b - - bm Rad8; ce 68; acd 25; acs 80; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
3rr1k1/1pq2ppp/2p2n2/p3n3/1bPN4/1P2B1PP/P1Q2PB1/3R1RK1 w - - bm Kh1; ce 46; acd 40; acs 195; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
3rr1k1/1pq2ppp/2p2n2/p3n3/1bPN4/1P2B1PP/P1Q2PB1/3R1R1K b - - bm Rd7; ce 41; acd 16; acs 197; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
4r1k1/1pqr1ppp/2p2n2/p3n3/1bPN4/1P2B1PP/P1Q2PB1/3R1R1K w - - bm Nf5; ce 70; acd 37; acs 79; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
4r1k1/1pqr1ppp/2p2n2/p3nN2/1bP5/1P2B1PP/P1Q2PB1/3R1R1K b - - bm g6; ce 40; acd 21; acs 69; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
4r1k1/1pqr1p1p/2p2np1/p3nN2/1bP5/1P2B1PP/P1Q2PB1/3R1R1K w - - bm Bg5; ce 51; acd 42; acs 132; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
4r1k1/1pqr1p1p/2p2np1/p3nNB1/1bP5/1P4PP/P1Q2PB1/3R1R1K b - - bm Rxd1; ce 40; acd 19; acs 45; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
4r1k1/1pq2p1p/2p2np1/p3nNB1/1bP5/1P4PP/P1Q2PB1/3r1R1K w - - bm Rxd1; ce 53; acd 40; acs 60; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
4r1k1/1pq2p1p/2p2np1/p3nNB1/1bP5/1P4PP/P1Q2PB1/3R3K b - - bm Nfd7; ce 39; acd 24; acs 99; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
4r1k1/1pqn1p1p/2p3p1/p3nNB1/1bP5/1P4PP/P1Q2PB1/3R3K w - - bm Nd4; ce 53; acd 38; acs 57; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
4r1k1/1pqn1p1p/2p3p1/p3n1B1/1bPN4/1P4PP/P1Q2PB1/3R3K b - - bm Nf8; ce 47; acd 15; acs 181; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
4rnk1/1pq2p1p/2p3p1/p3n1B1/1bPN4/1P4PP/P1Q2PB1/3R3K w - - bm Bc1; ce 53; acd 40; acs 147; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
4rnk1/1pq2p1p/2p3p1/p3n3/1bPN4/1P4PP/P1Q2PB1/2BR3K b - - bm Qe7; ce 48; acd 20; acs 212; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
4rnk1/1p2qp1p/2p3p1/p3n3/1bPN4/1P4PP/P1Q2PB1/2BR3K w - - bm Bb2; ce 39; acd 40; acs 105; c0 "Stockfish 19092522"; c3 "*";
4rnk1/1p2qp1p/2p3p1/p3n3/1bPN4/1P4PP/PBQ2PB1/3R3K b - - bm h5; ce 46; acd 25; acs 87; c0 "AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n11"; c3 "*";
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Graham Banks
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Re: Strange enormous evals falling out of book at TCEC

Post by Graham Banks »

Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:07 amIt seemed like a really big score out of book, so I looked in my database, and I had -40 centipawns for c6.

I figured it was probably older analysis so I ran the current dev stockfish to ply 40 and got a score of -31 centipawns.
Nothing wrong with those exit scores.
gbanksnz at gmail.com
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jdart
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:23 am
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Re: Strange enormous evals falling out of book at TCEC

Post by jdart »

TCEC likes unbalanced openings. Sometimes they are too imbalanced IMHO.

This line with .. c6 has been played by GM Rapport as Black.

--Jon
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supersharp77
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Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:54 am
Location: Southwest USA

Re: Strange enormous evals falling out of book at TCEC

Post by supersharp77 »

Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:07 am In the current TCEC game, the following position had an evaluation of down more than a pawn for AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n1 and then +77 for Stockfish 19092522 after AllieStein moved c6:
[d]rnb1kb1r/ppp1pppp/3q1n2/8/3P4/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R b KQkq -

It seemed like a really big score out of book, so I looked in my database, and I had -40 centipawns for c6.

I figured it was probably older analysis so I ran the current dev stockfish to ply 40 and got a score of -31 centipawns.
Well I was watching one of my engine tourneys and the same position came up in a engine contest with the chess engine playing Bg4 instead of what I thought it should play which is c6...Then white played the interesting move Nb5!? I did do a database search and only 4 games out of 2 million or so came up so a present this variation is wholly unexplored...after Nb5 I recall black playing Qd8?!...(who knows)... :) :wink: "(SF shows slight edge for white)

[Event "5'+5"/60+1'+5"/40+1'+5""]
[Site "Vegas"]
[Date "2019.10.01"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Unk1"]
[Black "Unk2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B01"]
[Annotator "AR-SF Ipman SE-3"]
[PlyCount "11"]
[TimeControl "60/300+5:40/60+5:60+5"]

{1MB, EVENSTAR}

[pgn] 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. d4 Nf6 4. Nc3 Qd6 5. Nf3 Bg4!? (5... c6!
6. Be2 Bg4 7. O-O e6 8. Re1 Nbd7 9. h3) 6. Nb5! 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
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Dann Corbit
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Re: Strange enormous evals falling out of book at TCEC

Post by Dann Corbit »

These are the analysis records I have for that sequence, starting from the last position:

Code: Select all

rn2kb1r/ppp1pppp/3q1n2/1N6/3P2b1/5N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R b KQkq - acd 39; acs 885; bm Qb6; ce -8; pm Qb6; pv Qb6 Na3 Nbd7 c3 Qe6+ Be3 Nd5 Nc4 b5 Nce5 Nxe5 dxe5 a6 a4 Nxe3 fxe3 Rd8 Nd4 Bxd1 Nxe6 fxe6 Rxd1 Rxd1+ Kxd1 c6 g3 g6 Ke2 Bg7 Bh3 Bxe5 Bxe6 Kd8 Ra1 Kc7 axb5 axb5 Ra7+ Kd6 Bg4 Rd8 Bf3 b4 Ra6 bxc3 bxc3 Rb8 Kd3 Rb2 Bxc6 Kc7 Be4 Bf6 Ra7+ Kd6 Bf3 Rb3 Ke4 Rxc3 Ra6+ Kc7; 
rn2kb1r/ppp1pppp/3q1n2/8/3P2b1/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq - acd 39; acs 564; bm h3; c3 "Nb5"; ce 69; pm h3; pv h3 Bh5 g4 Bg6 Bg2 Nbd7 g5 Nh5 Nh4 c6 d5 cxd5 Nxg6 hxg6 Qxd5 Qxd5 Bxd5 Rb8 Bd2 e6 Bg2 Ne5 Ne2 Bc5 Rf1 Ke7 O-O-O Rhd8 b3 Rd6 Ba5 Nc6 Rxd6 Kxd6 Bd2 Kc7 Be3 Bd6 Bxc6 Kxc6 Nd4+ Kd7 Nb5 a6 Nxd6 Kxd6 Rd1+ Ke5 a4 Kf5; 
rnb1kb1r/ppp1pppp/3q1n2/8/3P4/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R b KQkq - acd 40; acs 2170; bm g6; c0 "c6"; c2 "Nc6"; c3 "Bg4"; ce -31; pm g6; pv g6 Be2 Bg7 O-O a6 Be3 Nc6 Qd2 Bf5 Rad1 Rd8 a3 O-O d5 Nb8 h3 c6 Bf4 Qc5 d6 exd6 Bxd6 Qb6 g4 Rxd6 Qxd6 Qxb2 gxf5 Qxc3 Rfe1 Nbd7 Qb4 Qxb4 axb4 Re8 Bc4 Rxe1+ Rxe1 Bf8 c3 gxf5 Nd4 Nb6 Bb3 Nbd5 Bxd5 Nxd5 c4 Nxb4 Nxf5; 
rnb1kb1r/ppp1pppp/3q1n2/8/3P4/2N5/PPP2PPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - acd 38; acs 1218; bm Nf3; c0 "Nf3"; c3 "Nf3"; ce 51; pm Nf3; pv Nf3 Nc6 Nb5 Qd8 c4 e6 Be2 Bb4+ Nc3 O-O O-O b6 Be3 h6 Qa4 Bb7 Rad1 a5 a3 Bxc3 bxc3 Ne7 Ne5 Qe8 Qc2 Nd7 Nxd7 Qxd7 Rfe1 Bc6 Qa2 Rfd8 Bd3 Nf5 Bxf5 exf5 f3 Ba4 Rd2 c6 Bf2; 
rnb1kb1r/ppp1pppp/5n2/3q4/3P4/2N5/PPP2PPP/R1BQKBNR b KQkq - acd 35; acs 999; bm Qd8; c3 "Qd6"; ce -34; pm Qa5 {295} Qd8 {57} Qd6 {53} Qe6+ {3}; pv Qd8 Nf3 Bf5 Nh4 Bg4 Qd3 g6 h3 Be6 Bf4 Bg7 Be2 O-O O-O Nc6 Rfd1 Nb4 Qd2 c6 a3 Nbd5 Nxd5 cxd5 Qb4 Ne4 Nf3 b6 c3 f6 Qa4 Bd7 Qb3 Bc6 Bd3 Nd6 Be3 Bb7; 
rnb1kb1r/ppp1pppp/5n2/3q4/3P4/8/PPP2PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - acd 42; acs 3600; bm Nf3; c3 "Nc3"; ce 44; pm Nc3 {408} Nf3 {275} c4 {91} c3 {2} Be3 {1} h3 {1}; pv Nf3 e6 c4 Qd8 Be2 c5 Nc3 cxd4 Qxd4 Be7 Qxd8+ Bxd8 Bf4 Nc6 O-O O-O Rfd1 b6 Ne5 Nxe5 Bxe5 Bb7 Bd6 Re8 Nb5 Nd7 a4 Bc6 Bg3 a6 Rd6 axb5 cxb5 Be4 Rxd7 Bf6 a5 bxa5 b6 Rad8 Rxd8 Rxd8 f3 Bc6 Rxa5 Rd2; 
rnb1kbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3q4/3P4/8/PPP2PPP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - acd 39; acs 665; bm Nc6; c3 "Nf6"; ce -12; pm e5 {358} Nf6 {336} Nc6 {320} c6 {79} Bf5 {20} g6 {20} Qa5+ {14} Qd8 {11} c5 {8} a6 {3} Bg4 {1} Qc5 {1} Qe4+ {1} e6 {1}; pv Nc6 Qd2; 
rnb1kbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3q4/8/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - acd 39; acs 1997; bm Nc3; c0 "Nc3"; c3 "d4"; ce 33; pm Nc3 {42640} Nf3 {2260} d4 {1173} Qf3 {79} c4 {53} Ne2 {11} d3 {7} b4 {4} Be2 {3} b3 {3} c3 {3} Qe2 {2} h3 {2} Bd3 {1} Ke2 {1} a4 {1} f4 {1}; pv Nc3 Qd8; 
rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3P4/8/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - acd 40; acs 2650; bm Qxd5; c0 "Qxd5"; c3 "Qxd5"; ce -34; pm Qxd5 {46244} Nf6 {28677} c6 {377} e6 {46} e5 {44} Bf5 {12} Qd6 {8} c5 {3} g6 {3} Bd7 {2} Nh6 {2} h5 {2} Be6 {1} Bg4 {1} Qd7 {1} a6 {1} b6 {1}; pv Qxd5 Nc3 Qd8 d4 Nf6 Nf3 e6 Be2 Nc6 O-O Be7 Bf4 O-O Qd2 b6 a3 Bb7 Rad1 Bd6 Rfe1 Ne7 Ne5 Nf5 Bg5 h6 Bf3 Bxf3 Bxf6 Qxf6 Nxf3 Qg6 Nb5 Rfd8 c3 Ne7 c4 Nf5 h3 a6 Nxd6 cxd6 g4 Rac8; 
rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3p4/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - acd 42; acs 3600; bm exd5; c0 "exd5"; c3 "exd5"; ce 47; pm exd5 {75425} Nc3 {1454} e5 {497} d4 {404} d3 {176} f4 {39} f3 {23} Nf3 {18} c4 {7} c3 {6} Bd3 {2} a3 {2} b3 {2} h4 {2} Bc4 {1} Ke2 {1} Qf3 {1} b4 {1} h3 {1}; pv exd5 Qxd5 Nc3 Qa5 Nf3 c6 g3 Bf5 Nh4 Be6 Bg2 g6 O-O Bg7 d4 Nf6 Nf3 O-O Re1 Nbd7 h3 Rfe8 Bd2 Qc7 Rxe6 fxe6 Qe2 e5 dxe5 Nd5 Re1 e6 Ne4 Nxe5 c4 Rad8 Nxe5 Qxe5 cxd5 cxd5 Bf4 Qxb2; 
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - acd 48; acs 11580; bm e6; c1 "01b"; c3 "d5"; c4 "e5"; c5 "e5"; c6 b; ce -17; pm c5 {1218905} e5 {412609} e6 {257916} c6 {204175} d5 {78062} d6 {71821} g6 {57457} Nf6 {46929} Nc6 {20542} b6 {4882} a6 {1853} g5 {987} h6 {878} a5 {501} h5 {447} Na6 {410} f6 {336} f5 {276} Nh6 {273} b5 {241}; pv e6 d4 d5 Nc3 Nf6 Bg5 dxe4 Nxe4 Be7 Nxf6+ Bxf6 Bxf6 Qxf6 Nf3 O-O Qd3 Bd7 Be2 Bc6 O-O Nd7 Rad1 h6 Qe3 Rfd8 c4 a6 Rfe1 b5 b3 Bb7 Rd2 b4 h3 a5 Nh2 Qg5 Qxg5 hxg5 Bf3 c6 Rdd1 a4 Ng4 axb3 axb3 Ra3 d5 exd5 cxd5 cxd5 Bxd5 Bxd5 Rxd5; 
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - acd 70; acs 1589745; bm c4; c1 "01a"; c2 "perft 1 20 perft 2 400 perft 3 8902 perft 4 197281 perft 5 4865609 perft 6 119060324"; c3 "e4"; c4 "e4"; c5 "e4"; c6 Arves.17811; ce 8; pm e4 {2379495} d4 {1725526} Nf3 {483679} c4 {479713} g3 {39820} f4 {35589} b3 {27764} Nc3 {13010} e3 {2686} b4 {2458} g4 {2450} c3 {1654} d3 {1649} a3 {1150} h3 {717} a4 {552} h4 {425} f3 {363} Nh3 {82} Na3 {28}; pv c4 c5 Nf3 Nf6 g3 d5 d4 dxc4 Qa4 Nc6 dxc5 e6 Bg2 Bxc5 Nc3 Qa5 Qxc4 O-O O-O Bd7 Ne4 Be7 Bd2 Qf5 Nxf6 Bxf6 Bc3 e5 Nd2 Rac8 Qb3 Rc7 Bd5 b5 a3 a6 Rac1 Be7 e3 Rfc8 f4 Be6 Bxe6 Qxe6 Qxe6 fxe6 Ne4 a5 Bxe5 Nxe5 Rxc7 Rxc7 fxe5 Rc4 Rf4 Bc5 Nxc5 Rxc5 Kf1 Rc1 Kg2 Rc5 b4 axb4 axb4 Rc2 Rf2 Rc3 Kf3 Rc4 Rd2 Rxb4 Rd7 g5 g4 Rb2 Rb7 Rxh2 Rxb5;
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Graham Banks
Posts: 41455
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Strange enormous evals falling out of book at TCEC

Post by Graham Banks »

supersharp77 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:57 am
Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:07 am In the current TCEC game, the following position had an evaluation of down more than a pawn for AllieStein v0.5-dev_7b41f8c-n1 and then +77 for Stockfish 19092522 after AllieStein moved c6:
[d]rnb1kb1r/ppp1pppp/3q1n2/8/3P4/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R b KQkq -

It seemed like a really big score out of book, so I looked in my database, and I had -40 centipawns for c6.

I figured it was probably older analysis so I ran the current dev stockfish to ply 40 and got a score of -31 centipawns.
Well I was watching one of my engine tourneys and the same position came up in a engine contest with the chess engine playing Bg4 instead of what I thought it should play which is c6...Then white played the interesting move Nb5!? I did do a database search and only 4 games out of 2 million or so came up so a present this variation is wholly unexplored...after Nb5 I recall black playing Qd8?!...(who knows)... :) :wink: "(SF shows slight edge for white)

[Event "5'+5"/60+1'+5"/40+1'+5""]
[Site "Vegas"]
[Date "2019.10.01"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Unk1"]
[Black "Unk2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B01"]
[Annotator "AR-SF Ipman SE-3"]
[PlyCount "11"]
[TimeControl "60/300+5:40/60+5:60+5"]

{1MB, EVENSTAR}

[pgn] 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. d4 Nf6 4. Nc3 Qd6 5. Nf3 Bg4!? (5... c6!
6. Be2 Bg4 7. O-O e6 8. Re1 Nbd7 9. h3) 6. Nb5! 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
My opening book only considers 5....g6.

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd6 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 g6 6. Bg5 Bg7 7. Qd2 a6 *
1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd6 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 g6 6. Nb5 Qb6 7. Na3 c6 8. Nc4 Qc7 *
1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd6 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 g6 6. Nb5 Qb6 7. Bd3 *
1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd6 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 g6 6. Nb5 Qb6 7. c4 c6 8. Nc3 Bg7 9. c5 Bg7 10. Bc4 O-O 11. O-O b6 *
1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd6 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 g6 6. Nb5 Qb6 7. c4 c6 8. Nc3 Bg7 9. h3 O-O 10. Bd3 *
1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd6 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 g6 6. Nb5 Qb6 7. c4 c6 8. Nc3 Bg7 9. h3 O-O 10. Be2 Rd8 11. O-O Rd8 *
gbanksnz at gmail.com
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USGroup1
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:01 pm
Full name: Sina Vaziri

Re: Strange enormous evals falling out of book at TCEC

Post by USGroup1 »

Code: Select all

FEN: rnb1kb1r/ppp1pppp/3q1n2/8/3P4/2N2N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R b KQkq - 0 1
Engine: stockfish_19100201_x64_bmi2.exe
Threads: 3
Hash: 128
Start Time: 10/2/2019 12:41:54 PM


Trick: (+0.59) g6   <Low Risk/Low Reward>
1... g6 2. Be2 Bg7 3. Nb5 Qd8 4. c4 O-O 5. Nc3 Bf5 6. O-O c5 7. d5 e6 8. Bg5 exd5 9. cxd5 h6 10. Be3 Ne4 11. Qb3 Nxc3 12. bxc3 Nd7

Refutation: (+1.06) Nb5
1... g6 2. Nb5 Qd8 3. c4 c5 4. Bf4 Na6 5. d5 Bg7 6. Be2 Nh5 7. Be5 f6 8. Bc3 O-O 9. O-O Nf4 10. Re1 Bf5 11. Bf1 e5 12. dxe6 Qxd1 13. Raxd1 Bxe6 14. h3 Rfd8 15. Rxd8+ Rxd8 16. Nxa7

Best: (+0.68) c6
1... c6 2. h3 Bf5 3. Bd3 Bxd3 4. Qxd3 e6 5. O-O Nbd7 6. Ne2 c5 7. Bf4 Qb6 8. Rfd1 cxd4 9. Nexd4 Bc5 10. a4 Nd5 11. Bg3 Rd8 12. a5 Qxb2 13. Rdb1 Qc3 14. Qxc3 Nxc3 15. Rxb7


<Dynamic complexity of this position is high.>

Best Move: c6
Best Reply: h3
Evaluation: +0.68
Variations: 28
Depth: 21
Analysis Time: 00:03:10.3460759
Generated by ChessTricks v6.6
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