TCEC Superfinal - Stockfish leading AllieStein

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leavenfish
Posts: 281
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TCEC Superfinal - Stockfish leading AllieStein

Post by leavenfish » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:10 am

I know this is a bit simplistic, but I wonder if this is largely what it boils down to:

Stockfish sees far enough/fast enough that - more often than not - it can keep much of the edge one might think an NN engine like AllieStein would 'conjur' up to a minimum...and then as more pieces come off the board and we approach an endgame, the A/B approach of Stockfish begins to shine?

sovaz1997
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Re: TCEC Superfinal - Stockfish leading AllieStein

Post by sovaz1997 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:48 am

leavenfish wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:10 am
the A/B approach of Stockfish begins to shine?
If you knew the difference between Allie and Leela, you would not ask this question.
Zevra 2 - my chess engine.
Binary, source and description here: https://github.com/sovaz1997/Zevra2

Nay Lin Tun
Posts: 522
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:34 am

Re: TCEC Superfinal - Stockfish leading AllieStein

Post by Nay Lin Tun » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:16 am

sovaz1997 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:48 am
leavenfish wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:10 am
the A/B approach of Stockfish begins to shine?
If you knew the difference between Allie and Leela, you would not ask this question.
If you check around other websites/ tournments such as chess.com , you would not ask these questions. :mrgreen:

Jouni
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Re: TCEC Superfinal - Stockfish leading AllieStein

Post by Jouni » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:04 am

Yesterday in endgame play SF had depth 161/161 and Allie 0/0 - some difference :) .
Jouni

leavenfish
Posts: 281
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:23 am

Re: TCEC Superfinal - Stockfish leading AllieStein

Post by leavenfish » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:54 pm

Nay Lin Tun wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:16 am
sovaz1997 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:48 am
leavenfish wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:10 am
the A/B approach of Stockfish begins to shine?
If you knew the difference between Allie and Leela, you would not ask this question.
If you check around other websites/ tournments such as chess.com , you would not ask these questions. :mrgreen:
But I did ask the question about this specific instance.

Nay Lin Tun
Posts: 522
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:34 am

Re: TCEC Superfinal - Stockfish leading AllieStein

Post by Nay Lin Tun » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:25 pm

Jouni wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:04 am
Yesterday in endgame play SF had depth 161/161 and Allie 0/0 - some difference :) .
Depth or Search is not that important when you have sound knowledge. That is why current 20x256 leela can play equally against 1:1000 faster Stockfish.

If T60 become really powerful, it may probably play against 1:10,000 faster Stockfish.

In theory, if you know the outcome of 10^43 positions , like 32 men TB, you just need depth 1 only. ( 7 men tablebases knows only depth 1.

In practice, if you know, a certrain trade leads certain endgame that you are sure about how to win (e.g KRP v KR), then you just need depth 1.( no need to search).

jp
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Re: TCEC Superfinal - Stockfish leading AllieStein

Post by jp » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:30 pm

Jouni wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:04 am
Allie 0/0
Why did Allie have zero depth?

leavenfish
Posts: 281
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:23 am

Re: TCEC Superfinal - Stockfish leading AllieStein

Post by leavenfish » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:41 pm

Nay Lin Tun wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:25 pm
Jouni wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:04 am
Yesterday in endgame play SF had depth 161/161 and Allie 0/0 - some difference :) .

In theory, if you know the outcome of 10^43 positions , like 32 men TB, you just need depth 1 only. ( 7 men tablebases knows only depth 1.

In practice, if you know, a certrain trade leads certain endgame that you are sure about how to win (e.g KRP v KR), then you just need depth 1.( no need to search).
My thoughts were my quick take after going thru a few of the games.

So, are you verifying that AllieStein just doesn't play as well as Stockfish when play becomes more concrete later in the middlegame and towards and into the endgame?

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