ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

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chrisw
Posts: 2106
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:28 pm

Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by chrisw » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:50 pm

smatovic wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:27 pm
Look, I am not in a position to be able to judge about Vas of doing anything.

And I am simply not interested in getting involved in a Pro/Con Vas 'dichotomy'.
But that's the whole point, you don't need to decide pro or con Vas.
This is about pro or con consistency.
If he is a witch, so are those with similar Similarities.
If he is not a witch, neither are those with similar Similarites.

But like I already said, here in CCC we have no trial, we have a pillory, and that is the EO subforum.
No. here you are equating those who wish to right an injustice, with those who perpetrated the injustice. It's ironic that the Similarity test turned out to find that those who convicted a programmer as a witch, turned out to have also to have sunk when the flotation test was applied to them.

Okay, so something is wrong somewhere.
Clearly there's nothing wrong with the Similarity Test, it just produces matching move Similarity scores which can be inter-engine compared.
What's wrong in my opinion? The assumption across all testing, Similarity by Outcome, Similarity by Idea in Code, is twofold:

1. If idea X is in program A and idea X is in program B, it was "copied" or "taken" or "stolen" or "plagiarised" or some other negative connotation. It doesn't have to be any of those things. Ideas can be sparked in all sorts of ways. You never been in a situation where you saw 1% of something and, whoosh, suddenly you worked out, or it came to you in a flash, the other 99%? Happens all the time. Well, if you have that sort of a brain. You approve of little Greta, I believe? I guess she thinks like that, no? How else does a little 16 year old be so eloquent as to outclass entire auditoriums of adults leaders and experts?

2. If idea X is in program A and idea X is in program B, A must have found the idea in B.
But why must A have found it in B?

Both assumptions are flawed. Completely. That they were assumed true, or not considered was the Confirmation Bias, or part of it.

Everything they knew was wrong. A programmer was dragged to the town square and burnt as a witch because idiots. That's it. Biased idiots in a big group.

That is all I have to say on this topic.
Yup. Pretty much me too. But there's lots of data. It speaks.
--
Srdja

smatovic
Posts: 909
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Location: Hamburg, Germany
Full name: Srdja Matovic
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Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by smatovic » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:13 am

Okay, one more time...

you present me this like I am a member of a jury, but I am not, and here is no
trial going on, we have here no trials for this.

The CCC has not sentenced Vas, it can't. If members of the CCC used to 'burn
witches' in the public times ago, then that may be the reason that EO was
established, so that 'witch hunters' can 'burn witches' in a more controlled
manner, or so.

Witch hunting? Yea? Please the fourth down to the EO...

--
Srdja

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Rebel
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Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by Rebel » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:04 am

smatovic wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:13 am
Okay, one more time...

you present me this like I am a member of a jury, but I am not, and here is no
trial going on, we have here no trials for this.

The CCC has not sentenced Vas, it can't. If members of the CCC used to 'burn
witches' in the public times ago, then that may be the reason that EO was
established, so that 'witch hunters' can 'burn witches' in a more controlled
manner, or so.

Witch hunting? Yea? Please the fourth down to the EO...

--
Srdja
You miss context, I repeat -
Speaking of the ICGA, looking the participants of the last years.

1. Chriron, started from Robbolito.
2. Shredder, showing a similarity with Stockfish of 65%
3. Early Komodo's vs Fruit / Strelka even Robbolito --> ±60%
4. Late Komodo's vs Stockfish --> ±60%

If it were so bad in 2011 then it is even worse now.
This is a computer chess forum. This is about the world championship computer chess and the hypocrisy our investigation (much to our suprise) shows and brought to the attention of the members of this forum. While the ICGA world championship certainly has lost attractiveness due to TCEC and CCCC it is still the official world championship as the ICGA claims.

If that's a witch hunt to you, so be it.
Everybody is unique, except me.

chrisw
Posts: 2106
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:28 pm

Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by chrisw » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:39 pm

smatovic wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:13 am
Okay, one more time...

you present me this
No way. I am just jabbering away into the void. Sometimes the void replies and sometimes not. When it does, usually tangentially, and usually with the original meaning utterly distorted and turned into something else.

like I am a member of a jury, but I am not, and here is no
trial going on, we have here no trials for this.
Who is this “we”? The absence of any categorisation, btw, in your CTF posting on “I” and “we” on the size and formation of “we” groups, just assuming a global “we”, was the reason I didn’t respond to it. “We” constructs a “them” by necessity, often an “it”, often “we” creates its identity by doing some very despicable acts towards an “it”, that the “I”s of which the “we” is composed of would never do alone.
“We” could go on about group behaviour, how it is manipulated, how important it is to “belong”, group thinking constructed, responsibility off loaded from the personal to the group and then some more, but that would be just too off-topic for programming experts in groups, wouldn’t it?

The CCC has not sentenced Vas, it can't. If members of the CCC used to 'burn
witches' in the public times ago, then that may be the reason that EO was
established, so that 'witch hunters' can 'burn witches' in a more controlled
manner, or so.
When the witch hunting began, it touched on a field far wider than computer chess, and external people from other fields began to take an interest and even joined into discussions. The perpetrators wanted to organise without critics from other fields and EO was part of the process of removal of ex-field critics. The selected panel of investigation took this exclusion process one step further such that there became no brake on what could be done. All was hidden, deliberations were in secret. The group could do what what it wanted, and it became a group of idiots, as secret, exclusive, entitled and exceptionalist groups without self critics tend to do. If the group were an individual, it would be described as psychopathic, narcissistic and machiavellian. And so it became. The witch was dragged into the town square and burnt. Some of the crowd shouted the witch refused to bother to defend her/himself, therefore he was a witch. It was a disgusting process of which every person who did not condemn it and just let it pass is guilty.

Witch hunting? Yea? Please the fourth down to the EO..

--
Srdja

smatovic
Posts: 909
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Full name: Srdja Matovic
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Re: ICGA - Rybka<>Fruit, Shredder, Komodo, Chiron

Post by smatovic » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:58 pm

chrisw wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:39 pm
smatovic wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:13 am
Okay, one more time...

you present me this
No way. I am just jabbering away into the void. Sometimes the void replies and sometimes not. When it does, usually tangentially, and usually with the original meaning utterly distorted and turned into something else.

like I am a member of a jury, but I am not, and here is no
trial going on, we have here no trials for this.
Who is this “we”? The absence of any categorisation, btw, in your CTF posting on “I” and “we” on the size and formation of “we” groups, just assuming a global “we”, was the reason I didn’t respond to it. “We” constructs a “them” by necessity, often an “it”, often “we” creates its identity by doing some very despicable acts towards an “it”, that the “I”s of which the “we” is composed of would never do alone.
“We” could go on about group behaviour, how it is manipulated, how important it is to “belong”, group thinking constructed, responsibility off loaded from the personal to the group and then some more, but that would be just too off-topic for programming experts in groups, wouldn’t it?

The CCC has not sentenced Vas, it can't. If members of the CCC used to 'burn
witches' in the public times ago, then that may be the reason that EO was
established, so that 'witch hunters' can 'burn witches' in a more controlled
manner, or so.
When the witch hunting began, it touched on a field far wider than computer chess, and external people from other fields began to take an interest and even joined into discussions. The perpetrators wanted to organise without critics from other fields and EO was part of the process of removal of ex-field critics. The selected panel of investigation took this exclusion process one step further such that there became no brake on what could be done. All was hidden, deliberations were in secret. The group could do what what it wanted, and it became a group of idiots, as secret, exclusive, entitled and exceptionalist groups without self critics tend to do. If the group were an individual, it would be described as psychopathic, narcissistic and machiavellian. And so it became. The witch was dragged into the town square and burnt. Some of the crowd shouted the witch refused to bother to defend her/himself, therefore he was a witch. It was a disgusting process of which every person who did not condemn it and just let it pass is guilty.

Witch hunting? Yea? Please the fourth down to the EO..

--
Srdja
Okay, my fault, sorry:

CCC -> Computer Chess Club -> talkchess.com -> this forum -> 'here'
All talkchess.com members -> 'We'

Just realized that CCC can also be read as 'Computer Chess Community', but I meant this forum here and its members.

--
Srdja

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