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I am not a strong player so I probably cannot beat it but I suspect stockfish depth 50 with a single line has good chances to beat stockfish depth 24 with these conditions even after 24 takebacks by stockfish depth 24 at multi-pv=4.Ovyron wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:38 pmI'm willing to defend 1.g4 against anybody that seriously think it is losing, and I guarantee that I can draw them. The main reason it's ? is because you give any chances of winning whatsoever, so it's only black that can win if you're not careful.
And I'm not saying something like "1.g4 is a draw with perfect play", even at some imperfect playing level it's a draw.
I propose the following experiment:
Use Stockfish at Depth 24 at MultiPV=4 and try to beat it. Write down all its scores and moves for every position it play. Once you get it to show a -2.00 score, you assume you beat it, then you jump back to the best scored position that it didn't play. You call this a "takeback". The question is: can you beat Stockfish after 24 takebacks?
I estimate that somewhere around takeback 12-16 it'll have found the mainline of 1.g4 (for your attacking line) and no matter what you do, you'll not be able to beat it from there. So you'll have to change your attacking line. My condition is that if you do this, you reset the takebacks back to 24, and try again.
You wouldn't be able to beat Stockfish Depth 24 MutliPV=4 like this (once you make it reach -2.00 and it has ran out of takebacks), so this exercise will help you find and see the drawing moves against the attacking lines you throw at it. This can only happen if 1.g4 is drawn (unfortunately, you can never run out of attacking lines, so you can only prove 1.g4 isn't losing against any line, but never prove it isn't losing against every line.)
I'd rather say "we know, but can't prove it."
I have tried stuff like this actually, and these conditions are surprisingly though to beat, specially in other positions where Stockfish shows some 1.50 score yet one can't find an attack that defeats it. This has become useful because you can rank moves by how many takebacks are required to needing to search for a different attack, if after just 8 takebacks you need another attack the defending move is though.I am not a strong player so I probably cannot beat it but I suspect stockfish depth 50 with a single line has good chances to beat stockfish depth 24 with these conditions even after 24 takebacks by stockfish depth 24 at multi-pv=4.
It is better to have some interface to do it automatically instead of a human that take back moves manually.
Maybe, but I figure you can play 1."ANY move" against a top engine and you will still lose.Graham Banks wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:57 pmI'd never play 1.g4 against a top engine. Loss guaranteed.
