longest 6-man EGTB win

[petero2]

Anyone have a list of positions of the longest 6-man EGTB wins that meet 50 move rule requirements? I.E. no cursed wins allowed

I think to do this accurately, you must have the complete Lomonosov files.
They have distance to mate.

But they don't take into account the 50-move rule. Whenever they show a mate in more than 50 moves, you can't really be sure about the number of moves it would take under the 50-move rule (it could be more, it could be less).

How could it be less?

If the winning side can force mate in N moves under the 50 move rule, there must exist a proof tree demonstrating that win.

In this proof tree all terminal nodes are at most N moves away from the root and have a score that is "mate" for the winning side.

A (correct) draw claim by the 50 move rule would correspond to a terminal node with a none-mate score, so there can be no draw claims in the proof tree.

In a game without the 50 move rule, the proof tree is a valid game tree since it does not contain any draw claims by the 50 move rule.

In a game without the 50 move rule, this game tree contains all valid moves for the losing side in all positions, since in the game without the 50 move rule, the set of legal moves is always the same or one less than the set of legal moves in the game with the 50 move rule (depending on if the "claim draw" move is valid or not in the game with the 50 move rule).

Therefore the game tree is a proof tree also for the game without the 50 move rule and since all terminal moves are at most N moves away from the root, this proves that it is possible to force mate in at most N moves.


A shorter but maybe less formal proof goes like this:

Assume there is a forced mate in N moves under the 50 move rule. If you remove the 50 move rule, two things happen:

1. The losing side loses the ability to claim a draw in some positions. Taking away options for the losing side cannot give him the ability to defend better. (compare relaxation in mathematical optimization)

2. The winning side loses the ability to claim a draw in some positions, but claiming a draw never wins the game, so losing the ability to claim a draw does not hurt the winning side.

[Zenmastur]

Seems like a gaping hole in the statistics for 6-man EGTB's.

[syzygy]

Anyone have a list of positions of the longest 6-man EGTB wins that meet 50 move rule requirements? I.E. no cursed wins allowed

I think to do this accurately, you must have the complete Lomonosov files.
They have distance to mate.

But they don't take into account the 50-move rule. Whenever they show a mate in more than 50 moves, you can't really be sure about the number of moves it would take under the 50-move rule (it could be more, it could be less).

How could it be less?

You're right, it cannot be less. I did not think it through completely.

What could be less (or more) is the max DTM when respecting the 50-move rule (max DTM50). It could be more because a position can need more moves to be converted to mate when respecting the 50-move rule. It could be less because a position that can be converted without 50-move rule can be drawn with the 50-move rule (cursed win).

The WDL50 information can be used to detect the cursed wins, so combining Lomonosov/Nalimov's DTM information with Syzygy's WDL50 information can at least give a lower bound on max DTM50.

[Paloma]

It was once reported here that syzygy-DTM is under development.

How far is this project? Or has it been given up?

Does anyone know more? Ronald de Man?

[Dann Corbit]

The 50 move rule adds an incredible amount of complexity.
Therefore, it also adds an incredible amount of size to the files.
Every position can potentially have 100 different answers.
I think the problem is too difficult and/or too large.
Maybe noob has the hardware to deal with it, but even that is doubtful.
The worst part, by far, is how do you debug this thing?

[Zenmastur]

The 50 move rule adds an incredible amount of complexity.
Therefore, it also adds an incredible amount of size to the files.
Every position can potentially have 100 different answers.
I think the problem is too difficult and/or too large.
Maybe noob has the hardware to deal with it, but even that is doubtful.
The worst part, by far, is how do you debug this thing?

Hmmm...

There must be a communications issue.

I'm not asking that the files be changed in anyway. Just for a short, representative list, (1 from each of several EGTB files (e.g. 1 from the KQPkrr file for example) of positions which represent a long mate that respects the 50-move rule.

A similar list that doesn't respect the 50-move rule can be found here:http://kirill-kryukov.com/chess/longest ... ngth.shtml

I don't even need a full list. A half dozen example positions (hopefully from different endgame files) where the mate is, say 100 moves or longer, and it's not a cursed win would be more than sufficient I think.

I'm surprised no one has started such a list.

Regards,

Zenmastur

[hgm]

The problem is that this information is not in any of the existing EGT. The DTM tables don't respect the 50-move rule, so that positions with large DTM might actually be draws. The DTZ tables do tell you which positions can be won respecting the 50-move rule, but they do not tell you their DTM.

[duncan]

The problem is that this information is not in any of the existing EGT. The DTM tables don't respect the 50-move rule, so that positions with large DTM might actually be draws. The DTZ tables do tell you which positions can be won respecting the 50-move rule, but they do not tell you their DTM.

I tried to look for the 10 longest DTM in descending order. The longest I could find was mate in 125. Does this look at all accurate to you. ?


[pgn] [Event "KQBNvKQN"] [Site ""] [Date "????.??.??"] [Round "-"] [White "Syzygy"] [Black "Syzygy"] [Result "1-0"] [FEN "8/1q6/8/4Q3/8/8/B4n2/NK1k4 w - - 0 1"] [Annotator "shakmaty-syzygy"] [WDL "Win"] [DTZ "100"] [WinningMoves "Bb3+"] [DrawingMoves "Nb3, Qb2"] [LosingMoves "Qb5"] { KQBNvKQN with DTZ 100 } 1. Bb3+ Kd2 2. Qb2+ Ke3 3. Nc2+ Kf4 4. Qf6+ Kg3 5. Nd4 Ng4 6. Qf5 Qh1+ 7. Kb2 Qg2+ 8. Ka3 Qb7 9. Qd3+ Kh4 10. Qd2 Qe7+ 11. Kb2 Kh5 12. Qc3 Ne3 13. Qd3 Qe5 14. Kb1 Kg4 15. Ba4 Kf4 16. Bc6 Qe7 17. Qd2 Kg3 18. Qe1+ Kg4 19. Qg1+ Kh5 20. Bf3+ Kh6 21. Qh2+ Kg7 22. Qb8 Kg6 23. Qg3+ Kf7 24. Qf4+ Kg8 25. Nb3 Qe6 26. Qb8+ Kf7 27. Qc7+ Kg8 28. Nc5 Qf5+ 29. Be4 Qf1+ 30. Kb2 Qf6+ 31. Ka3 Qa1+ 32. Kb4 Qb1+ 33. Ka4 Qa1+ 34. Kb5 Qb2+ 35. Ka6 Qa1+ 36. Kb7 Qb2+ 37. Kc8 Qg7 38. Nd7 Ng4 39. Bd3 Kh8 40. Qf4 Qg8+ 41. Kc7 Qg7 42. Bb1 Nh6 43. Qh4 Qc3+ 44. Kd6 Qd2+ 45. Ke7 Qe3+ 46. Kf6 Kg8 47. Ba2+ Kh7 48. Nf8+ Kh8 49. Kg6 Qb6+ 50. Qf6+ Qxf6+ { KBNvKQN with DTZ 1 } 51. Kxf6 { KBNvKN with DTZ -92 } 51... Ng4+ 52. Kg6 Nf6 53. Ne6 Nd7 54. Kh6 Ne5 55. Nc5 Nd3 56. Nb7 Ne5 57. Bd5 Nd3 58. Nd6 Nf2 59. Kg6 Ng4 60. Be6 Nf2 61. Bf5 Nd1 62. Kf7 Ne3 63. Bd3 Ng4 64. Be4 Nf2 65. Bf3 Nd3 66. Nc4 Ne1 67. Be4 Nd3 68. Kf6 Nc5 69. Bc2 Nd7+ 70. Ke7 Nf8 71. Nd6 Nh7 72. Kf7 Ng5+ 73. Kf6 Nh7+ 74. Kg6 Nf8+ 75. Kf7 Nd7 76. Bf5 Ne5+ 77. Kf6 Nf3 78. Be4 Nd2 79. Bd3 Kg8 80. Nf5 Kf8 81. Ng7 Nb3 82. Ne6+ Kg8 83. Bc4 Nd2 84. Bd5 Nf1 85. Nd4+ Kh7 86. Kg5 Nd2 87. Ne2 Kg7 88. Kf4 Nb1 89. Bc4 Na3 90. Bd3 Kf6 91. Nd4 Ke7 92. Ke5 Kd7 93. Kd5 Ke7 94. Ne2 Kf6 95. Kc5 Ke5 96. Kb4 Nb1 97. Bxb1 { KBNvK with DTZ -55 } 97... Kd5 98. Nc3+ Kd4 99. Be4 Ke5 100. Kc5 Ke6 101. Nd5 Ke5 102. Bg6 Ke6 103. Kd4 Kd7 104. Bf7 Kd6 105. Bg8 Kc6 106. Nf4 Kb6 107. Bb3 Kb5 108. Bd5 Ka4 109. Kc3 Ka3 110. Ne2 Ka4 111. Nd4 Ka3 112. Nc2+ Ka4 113. Bc6+ Ka5 114. Kc4 Kb6 115. Nd4 Ka6 116. Kc5 Ka5 117. Nb3+ Ka6 118. Bg2 Ka7 119. Kc6 Ka6 120. Bh3 Ka7 121. Nc5 Kb8 122. Kb6 Ka8 123. Bg4 Kb8 124. Na6+ Ka8 125. Bf3# { Checkmate } 1-0 ... [Event "KBBvKNP"] [Site ""] [Date "????.??.??"] [Round "-"] [White "Syzygy"] [Black "Syzygy"] [Result "0-1"] [FEN "8/8/8/p7/BB6/7n/8/K2k4 b - - 0 1"] [Annotator "shakmaty-syzygy"] [WDL "Loss"] [DTZ "-100"] [WinningMoves ""] [DrawingMoves ""] [LosingMoves "Kc1, Ke2"] { KBBvKNP with DTZ -100 } 1... Ke2 2. Bd6 Kd2 3. Kb2 Kd3 4. Bh2 Ng5 5. Bb8 Nf3 6. Bb5+ Kd4 7. Ba7+ Kd5 8. Ba4 Kc4 9. Kc2 Ne1+ 10. Kd2 Nd3 11. Be8 Ne5 12. Bb8 Kd4 13. Ba4 Nc4+ 14. Kc2 Ne3+ 15. Kb3 Kd3 16. Bb5+ Ke4 17. Bc6+ Kd4 18. Ba7+ Kd3 19. Bb5+ Ke4 20. Ba4 Kd3 21. Bc5 Nd1 22. Bb5+ Ke4 23. Kc2 Ne3+ 24. Kd2 Nd5 25. Ba4 Nb4 26. Bg1 Kd5 27. Bf2 Kc4 28. Be8 Kd5 29. Kc3 Nc6 30. Bf7+ Ke4 31. Bc5 Ne5 32. Bh5 Nd3 33. Ba3 Nf4 34. Be8 Kd5 35. Bf7+ Ne6 36. Bc1 Kd6 37. Kc4 Ke5 38. Bd2 Nf4 39. Bc3+ Kd6 40. Be1 Ke5 41. Be8 Ne2 42. Ba4 Nf4 43. Bc2 Nd5 44. Bg3+ Ke6 45. Be4 Ne3+ 46. Kc5 Ng4 47. Bc7 Nf2 48. Bb1 Ng4 49. Ba2+ Kf5 50. Kd4 Nf2 51. Bxa5 { KBBvKN with DTZ -100 } 51... Ng4 52. Bc4 Ne5 53. Bd5 Ng4 54. Bd8 Nf6 55. Bg2 Ng4 56. Bf1 Nf6 57. Bh3+ Kg6 58. Be6 Nh5 59. Ke5 Ng7 60. Bb3 Nh5 61. Kd6 Ng7 62. Bc2+ Kf7 63. Kd7 Nh5 64. Bb3+ Kg6 65. Ke7 Nf4 66. Bc2+ Kg5 67. Ba5 Nd5+ 68. Ke6 Ne3 69. Ba4 Kf4 70. Bc6 Nc4 71. Bc3 Ke3 72. Bf6 Na3 73. Ke5 Nc2 74. Bg5+ Kd3 75. Ba4 Na1 76. Bb5+ Kc3 77. Bh4 Nc2 78. Ke4 Kb4 79. Bf1 Na3 80. Bh3 Nc4 81. Kd4 Nb6 82. Bf1 Kb3 83. Be2 Kc2 84. Bb5 Kb3 85. Kd3 Na4 86. Bc4+ Kb4 87. Kd4 Ka5 88. Be2 Kb6 89. Kc4 Kc7 90. Bg3+ Kc8 91. Bg4+ Kb7 92. Kb4 Nb6 93. Kb5 Nc8 94. Bf3+ Ka7 95. Kc6 Ne7+ 96. Kd7 Nf5 97. Bf2+ Ka6 98. Bg4 Nh6 99. Be6 Ka5 100. Be3 Ng4 101. Bxg4 { KBBvK with DTZ -25 } 101... Ka4 102. Be2 Ka3 103. Bd2 Kb3 104. Bd3 Ka2 105. Kc6 Kb2 106. Kc5 Ka3 107. Kc4 Ka4 108. Bf1 Ka3 109. Kc3 Ka2 110. Bb5 Kb1 111. Bc4 Ka1 112. Kb3 Kb1 113. Bd3+ Ka1 114. Bc3# { Checkmate } 0-1 ... [Event "KNNPvKRB"] [Site ""] [Date "????.??.??"] [Round "-"] [White "Syzygy"] [Black "Syzygy"] [Result "0-1"] [FEN "1b6/5k2/P5N1/8/8/4rN2/8/4K3 w - - 0 1"] [Annotator "shakmaty-syzygy"] [WDL "Loss"] [DTZ "-100"] [WinningMoves ""] [DrawingMoves ""] [LosingMoves "Kd1, Kf1, Kd2, Kf2"] { KNNPvKRB with DTZ -100 } 1. Kf2 Re8 2. Ngh4 Ba7+ 3. Kg3 Kf6 4. Nd2 Re2 5. Nhf3 Kf5 6. Nh4+ Ke6 7. Nhf3 Bb8+ 8. Kh3 Kf6 9. Nc4 Ra2 10. Kg4 Rg2+ 11. Kh5 Rg3 12. Ncd2 Rg7 13. Nc4 Rc7 14. Ne3 Rh7+ 15. Kg4 Rg7+ 16. Kh5 Ba7 17. Ng4+ Kf5 18. Nh4+ Ke4 19. Nf6+ Kf4 20. Nd5+ Ke5 21. Nc3 Be3 22. Ng6+ Kf5 23. Nh4+ Ke6 24. Nf3 Rc7 25. Ne4 Rh7+ 26. Kg4 Rg7+ 27. Kh3 Bb6 28. Ne1 Ke5 29. Ng3 Rg8 30. Nd3+ Kd4 31. Nf4 Ke3 32. Ng2+ Kf2 33. Ne4+ Kf3 34. Nd2+ Ke2 35. Ne4 Bd4 36. Ng3+ Kf2 37. Ne4+ Kf3 38. Nd2+ Ke2 39. Ne4 Kd3 40. Ng3 Bf2 41. Nf4+ Ke3 42. Ng2+ Kd4 43. Nf5+ Kd3 44. Ngh4 Ke4 45. Nd6+ Ke5 46. Ndf5 Ke6 47. Kh2 Rg4 48. Kh3 Ra4 49. Ng7+ Kd5 50. Ng2 Rxa6 { KNNvKRB with DTZ -86 } 51. Nf4+ Ke4 52. Kg4 Ra1 53. Nh3 Be3 54. Nf5 Bb6 55. Nh4 Ke5 56. Nf4 Rg1+ 57. Kf3 Rf1+ 58. Kg2 Rf2+ 59. Kg3 Ke4 60. Nh3 Rb2 61. Kg4 Bd8 62. Kg3 Rb3+ 63. Kg4 Rb6 64. Ng5+ Kd3 65. Nh3 Rb4+ 66. Nf4+ Ke4 67. Nhg6 Ke3 68. Kf5 Rb5+ 69. Ke6 Ke4 70. Kd7 Ba5 71. Ne6 Rb7+ 72. Kd6 Rb6+ 73. Ke7 Bb4+ 74. Kf7 Rb7+ 75. Kf6 Bc3+ 76. Kg5 Rb6 77. Ngf4 Kf3 78. Kf5 Rb5+ 79. Kg6 Kg4 80. Ne2 Bh8 81. N2d4 Rd5 82. Nc2 Rd3 83. Nb4 Rd6 84. Kf7 Kf5 85. Nc5 Bd4 86. Nb3 Bg1 87. Nc1 Bc5 88. Nc2 Rd2 89. Na1 Be3 90. Ncb3 Ra2 91. Ke7 Bg5+ 92. Kd6 Bf6 93. Nc2 Rxc2 { KNvKRB with DTZ -26 } 94. Kd5 Bb2 95. Nc5 Rd2+ 96. Kc4 Rd8 97. Nb3 Ke5 98. Na5 Rc8+ 99. Kb3 Bc3 100. Nc4+ Kd4 101. Nd6 Rb8+ 102. Ka4 Bb4 103. Nc4 Rb7 104. Nb2 Bc5 105. Nd1 Kc4 106. Nb2+ Rxb2 { KvKRB with DTZ -2 } 107. Ka5 Ra2# { Checkmate } 0-1 .. [Event "KBBBvKRP"] [Site ""] [Date "????.??.??"] [Round "-"] [White "Syzygy"] [Black "Syzygy"] [Result "0-1"] [FEN "k4r2/8/2B5/8/8/6K1/p6B/3B4 b - - 0 1"] [Annotator "shakmaty-syzygy"] [WDL "Loss"] [DTZ "-100"] [WinningMoves ""] [DrawingMoves ""] [LosingMoves "Ka7, Kb8"] { KBBBvKRP with DTZ -100 } 1... Ka7 2. Bg1+ Ka6 3. Be2+ Ka5 4. Bd4 Rd8 5. Bc3+ Kb6 6. Bcf3 Rc8 7. Bd4+ Ka5 8. Bd5 Kb4 9. Bef3 Ka3 10. Bc6 Rb8 11. Bb7 Re8 12. Kf2 Rd8 13. Bfd5 Rd6 14. Bbc6 Kb4 15. Ke3 Rg6 16. Kf3 Rh6 17. Ke2 Rg6 18. Kf1 Rd6 19. Bb7 Ka3 20. Kf2 Rh6 21. Bbc6 Rh4 22. Be4 Rh2+ 23. Bg2 Rh4 24. Bce4 Rh5 25. Bd3 Rh4 26. Ba1 Rh2 27. Kf3 Kb4 28. Be4 Rh6 29. Ke2 Rd6 30. Bgf3 Rb6 31. Bd3 Rd6 32. Bfe4 Rd8 33. Kd2 Rg8 34. Bg6 Rf8 35. Bc2 Rf1 36. Bd1 Rf8 37. Kc1 Rc8+ 38. Kb2 Rf8 39. Bgc2 Rf6 40. Bb3 Rf2+ 41. Kc1 Kb5 42. Bd4 Rf4 43. Bc3 Rf2 44. Bbc2 Kc4 45. Be5 Kd5 46. Bg7 Kd6 47. Bc3 Rf7 48. Kb2 Ra7 49. Ba4 Rc7 50. Bb4+ Kd5 51. Kxa2 { KBBBvKR with DTZ -96 } 51... Rb7 52. Bf3+ Kc4 53. Be1 Rb4 54. Be2+ Kc5 55. Bf2+ Kd5 56. Bb3+ Ke4 57. Kb2 Rb7 58. Bc4 Rd7 59. Kc3 Rd6 60. Bg1 Rd7 61. Bc2+ Kf4 62. Bh2+ Ke3 63. Be5 Rd2 64. B2d3 Rd1 65. Bd4+ Kf4 66. Bb6 Re1 67. Kd4 Re7 68. Bd5 Re8 69. B3e4 Re7 70. Bc5 Rd7 71. Bg2 Rd8 72. Bh3 Rh8 73. Bhe6 Rh5 74. Ba3 Kg3 75. Bd6+ Kf2 76. Kd3 Rg5 77. Be4 Rg3+ 78. Kd2 Rg5 79. B6f5 Rg7 80. Be5 Re7 81. Ba1 Rf7 82. Bd4+ Kg3 83. Ke3 Re7 84. Bc3 Re8 85. Be1+ Kh2 86. Kf3 Rg8 87. Bg4 Rf8+ 88. Bef5 Ra8 89. Kf2 Ra4 90. Bf3 Rf4 91. Bg4 Rc4 92. Ba5 Rc8 93. Bb6 Rc4 94. Bd8 Rc1 95. Be2 Rc5 96. Bh4 Rc3 97. Be6 Rc1 98. Bg3+ Kh1 99. Bf3# { Checkmate } 0-1 .. [Event "KBBBvKRN"] [Site ""] [Date "????.??.??"] [Round "-"] [White "Syzygy"] [Black "Syzygy"] [Result "0-1"] [FEN "8/n2B4/5B2/8/B7/7r/8/1K2k3 b - - 0 1"] [Annotator "shakmaty-syzygy"] [WDL "Loss"] [DTZ "-100"] [WinningMoves ""] [DrawingMoves ""] [LosingMoves "Nb5, Nc6, Nc8, Rh1, Rh2, Ra3, Rb3+, Rc3, Rd3, Re3, Rf3, Rg3, Rh4, Rh5, Rh6, Rh7, Rh8, Kf1, Kd2, Ke2, Kf2"] { KBBBvKRN with DTZ -100 } 1... Rd3 2. Kb2 Rd5 3. Bd8 Rd6 4. Be7 Rd5 5. Kc3 Rh5 6. Kd3 Kf2 7. Kc4 Kg3 8. Bd6+ Kh4 9. Bb4 Kg3 10. Bc3 Rh1 11. Bc2 Rh5 12. Bb2 Ra5 13. Bb3 Kf4 14. Bd4 Ke4 15. Bc3 Rh5 16. Bd1 Re5 17. Bc2+ Kf4 18. Bd2+ Kg3 19. Bb4 Kf3 20. Bd6 Ra5 21. Bc7 Ra1 22. Kc5 Ra3 23. Kb4 Ra1 24. Bb3 Ke3 25. Kc5 Rb1 26. Bd5 Rb2 27. Be5 Rb1 28. Bc4 Ke4 29. Bc7 Rc1 30. Be6 Ke3 31. Be5 Rb1 32. Ba6 Rh1 33. Bg7 Rd1 34. Bd5 Rc1+ 35. Bdc4 Rd1 36. Bh6+ Kf2 37. Bg5 Rb1 38. Bf6 Ke3 39. Bd4+ Kf4 40. Kd5 Rd1 41. Bd3 Nc8 42. Ke6 Re1+ 43. Be2 Rb1 44. Bab5 Rc1 45. Kd7 Ke4 46. Bf2 Ke5 47. Ba6 Rc2 48. Bg1 Kf4 49. Bf1 Rc1 50. Bac4 Nb6+ 51. Bxb6 { KBBBvKR with DTZ -80 } 51... Ke5 52. Kc6 Rb1 53. Ba5 Kd4 54. Kd6 Rd1 55. Bb5 Ra1 56. Bb6+ Ke4 57. Bfd3+ Kf4 58. Kc5 Rc1+ 59. Kd4 Re1 60. Be2 Rc1 61. Bbc4 Ra1 62. Bc7+ Kf5 63. Bed3+ Kg4 64. Ke4 Ra4 65. Be2+ Kg5 66. Ke5 Ra8 67. Be6 Rf8 68. Bd6 Rf2 69. Be7+ Kg6 70. Bd3+ Kg7 71. Be4 Rf1 72. B6d5 Rf2 73. Bc5 Rf8 74. Be3 Rf1 75. Ke6 Rf6+ 76. Kd7 Rh6 77. Bd4+ Kf8 78. Bc5+ Kg7 79. Ke7 Ra6 80. Bc4 Ra4 81. Bed3 Kh6 82. Kf6 Kh5 83. Be6 Rf4+ 84. Bdf5 Rf1 85. Bc4 Rf4 86. Bd5 Kh4 87. Bg2 Ra4 88. Bf2+ Kh5 89. Bf3+ Kh6 90. Be3+ Rf4 91. Bxf4# { Checkmate } 0-1 ... [Event "KBBNPvKR"] [Site ""] [Date "????.??.??"] [Round "-"] [White "Syzygy"] [Black "Syzygy"] [Result "0-1"] [FEN "8/B1B5/4r3/P2N4/8/1k6/8/7K b - - 0 1"] [Annotator "shakmaty-syzygy"] [WDL "Loss"] [DTZ "-100"] [WinningMoves ""] [DrawingMoves ""] [LosingMoves "Re1+, Re2, Re3, Re4, Re5, Ra6, Rb6, Rc6, Rd6, Rf6, Rg6, Rh6+, Re7, Re8, Ka2, Kb2, Kc2, Ka3, Ka4, Kc4"] { KBBNPvKR with DTZ -100 } 1... Kc4 2. Nb6+ Kb5 3. Nc8 Ka6 4. Bab8 Re1+ 5. Kg2 Re8 6. Na7 Re2+ 7. Kf1 Rc2 8. Nc8 Rc1+ 9. Ke2 Rc6 10. Kd2 Re6 11. Na7 Rh6 12. Ke2 Rf6 13. Ke1 Re6+ 14. Kf2 Rf6+ 15. Kg3 Re6 16. Kf4 Rh6 17. Kg5 Re6 18. Kf5 Rh6 19. Nc8 Rh7 20. Kg6 Rd7 21. Kh6 Rd1 22. Ne7 Rh1+ 23. Kg5 Rd1 24. Kf4 Re1 25. Nd5 Rd1 26. Nb4+ Kb5 27. Na2 Ra1 28. Nc3+ Kc4 29. Ne2 Rf1+ 30. Ke3 Kb5 31. Nc3+ Ka6 32. Bb6 Rc1 33. Nd5 Rd1 34. Nf6 Re1+ 35. Kd2 Rf1 36. Ne4 Rf5 37. Bh2 Rd5+ 38. Kc2 Rf5 39. Kb3 Rf1 40. Bhc7 Rc1 41. Bf4 Rf1 42. Nc5+ Kb5 43. Ne6 Rf3+ 44. Bfe3 Rf7 45. Nd4+ Ka6 46. Ka4 Rf1 47. Ne6 Ra1+ 48. Kb3 Rb1+ 49. Ka2 Rd1 50. Nc7+ Kb7 51. a6+ { KBBNPvKR with DTZ -2 } 51... Kc6 52. a7 { KBBNPvKR with DTZ -2 } 52... Ra1+ 53. Kxa1 { KBBNPvK with DTZ -2 } 53... Kd6 54. a8=Q { KQBBNvK with DTZ -4 } 54... Ke5 55. Bg5 Kf5 56. Qe4+ Kxe4 { KBBNvK with DTZ 19 } 57. Ne8 Kd3 58. Kb2 Ke2 59. Nf6 Ke1 60. Ng4 Ke2 61. Kc2 Kf3 62. Ne3 Ke2 63. Bf4 Ke1 64. Bh2 Ke2 65. Bg3 Kf3 66. Kd3 Kxg3 { KBNvK with DTZ 46 } 67. Bc7+ Kf2 68. Ke4 Ke2 69. Ng4 Kd2 70. Ba5+ Ke2 71. Bb6 Kd2 72. Ne3 Ke1 73. Nc4 Ke2 74. Be3 Kf1 75. Kf3 Ke1 76. Bf2+ Kd1 77. Ke3 Kc2 78. Nb6 Kb3 79. Be1 Kc2 80. Ba5 Kb1 81. Kd2 Kb2 82. Bc3+ Kb3 83. Kd3 Ka3 84. Kc2 Ka2 85. Na4 Ka3 86. Nb2 Ka2 87. Bb4 Ka1 88. Nd3 Ka2 89. Nc1+ Ka1 90. Bc3# { Checkmate } 0-1 .. [Event "KBBNPvKQ"] [Site ""] [Date "????.??.??"] [Round "-"] [White "Syzygy"] [Black "Syzygy"] [Result "0-1"] [FEN "3q4/P7/8/8/3N4/4B3/3B4/K1k5 b - - 0 1"] [Annotator "shakmaty-syzygy"] [WDL "Loss"] [DTZ "-100"] [WinningMoves ""] [DrawingMoves ""] [LosingMoves "Kd1"] { KBBNPvKQ with DTZ -100 } 1... Kd1 2. Kb2 Qb8+ 3. Nb3 Qc8 4. Bc5 Ke2 5. Kc2 Qf5+ 6. Kc3 Qd3+ 7. Kb4 Qe4+ 8. Ka3 Kd3 9. Bde3 Qd5 10. Na5 Ke4 11. Nc4 Kf5 12. Nb6 Qd3+ 13. Kb4 Qb1+ 14. Ka4 Qa2+ 15. Ba3 Qc2+ 16. Ka5 Qc3+ 17. Bb4 Qa1+ 18. Na4 Qh1 19. Nc5 Qc6 20. Nd7 Qd5+ 21. Bec5 Qb7 22. Bg1 Qc7+ 23. Bb6 Qb7 24. Nc5 Qc6 25. Na6 Qd5+ 26. B6c5 Qb7 27. Bg1 Qd5+ 28. Nc5 Qd8+ 29. Ka6 Qc8+ 30. Kb6 Qd8+ 31. Kb7 Qd5+ 32. Kc7 Qe5+ 33. Kb6 Qf6+ 34. Kb5 Qa1 35. Nb7 Qf1+ 36. Kc6 Qg2+ 37. Kc7 Qg7+ 38. Kc8 Qg8+ 39. Nd8 Qc4+ 40. Bgc5 Qd5 41. Kc7 Qa8 42. Nc6 Ke4 43. Nb8 Kf3 44. Kb6 Qe4 45. Ba5 Qe6+ 46. Kb7 Qb3+ 47. Bab6 Qf7+ 48. Bc7 Qb3+ 49. B5b6 Qd5+ 50. Nc6 Qd1 51. a8=Q { KQBBNvKQ with DTZ -10 } 51... Qh1 52. Qa2 Kg4 53. Qd2 Kf5 54. Qh2 Qa1 55. Qe5+ Kg4 56. Qxa1 { KQBBNvK with DTZ -6 } 56... Kf5 57. Nb4 Ke4 58. Qb1+ Kf3 59. Qe4+ Kxe4 { KBBNvK with DTZ 17 } 60. Be3 Kf3 61. Nd5 Ke2 62. Bd2 Kd1 63. Ne3+ Ke2 64. Kb6 Kf2 65. Bg3+ Ke2 66. Kc5 Kd3 67. Kd5 Ke2 68. Ke4 Kxd2 { KBNvK with DTZ 42 } 69. Nf1+ Kc3 70. Bf2 Kb3 71. Bd4 Ka3 72. Ne3 Ka4 73. Kd5 Kb5 74. Nc2 Ka6 75. Kc6 Ka5 76. Bf2 Ka6 77. Nb4+ Ka5 78. Kc5 Ka4 79. Kc4 Ka5 80. Bg1 Ka4 81. Bb6 Ka3 82. Nd3 Ka4 83. Nb2+ Ka3 84. Kc3 Ka2 85. Nc4 Ka1 86. Be3 Kb1 87. Kb3 Ka1 88. Bd2 Kb1 89. Na3+ Ka1 90. Bc3# { Checkmate } 0-1 .. [Event "KQNPvKQP"] [Site ""] [Date "????.??.??"] [Round "-"] [White "Syzygy"] [Black "Syzygy"] [Result "0-1"] [FEN "8/P7/8/8/4k2K/Q2N4/4p3/1q6 b - - 0 1"] [Annotator "shakmaty-syzygy"] [WDL "Loss"] [DTZ "-100"] [WinningMoves ""] [DrawingMoves ""] [LosingMoves "e1=Q+, e1=R, e1=B+, e1=N, Qa1, Qc1, Qd1, Qe1+, Qf1, Qg1, Qh1+, Qa2, Qb2, Qc2, Qb3, Qxd3, Qb4, Qb5, Qb6, Qb7, Qb8, Ke3, Kf3, Kd4, Kd5, Kf5"] { KQNPvKQP with DTZ -100 } 1... Qh1+ 2. Kg5 Qg1+ 3. Kh5 Qh2+ 4. Kg6 Qg3+ 5. Kf6 Qh4+ 6. Ke6 Qh3+ 7. Ke7 Qh7+ 8. Kd6 Qg6+ 9. Kc7 Qf7+ 10. Kb6 Qe6+ 11. Ka5 Qd5+ 12. Nc5+ Kf4 13. Qb4+ Kf5 14. Kb5 Qa8 15. Qb1+ Kf6 16. Nd7+ Ke6 17. Nf8+ Ke5 18. Qb2+ Kf4 19. Qc1+ Kf5 20. Qc2+ Kf4 21. Ne6+ Ke3 22. Qc3+ Kf2 23. Nc5 Qe8+ 24. Kb4 Kf1 25. Qf3+ Kg1 26. Qg4+ Kf1 27. Qf5+ Kg2 28. Qd5+ Kh2 29. Qd2 Kh3 30. Qc3+ Kh2 31. Qe1 Kg2 32. Kc3 Qe3+ 33. Kc4 Qf4+ 34. Kb5 Qf3 35. Qd2 Kh1 36. Qc1+ Kg2 37. Qc2 Kh1 38. Qh7+ Kg1 39. Qd3 Qa8 40. Qd4+ Kf1 41. Nd3 Qb7+ 42. Kc4 Qc6+ 43. Qc5 Qa4+ 44. Kc3 Qa1+ 45. Kb3 Qb1+ 46. Kc4 Qa2+ 47. Kd4 Qa4+ 48. Ke3 Qe8+ 49. Kd2 Kg2 50. Nf4+ Kf1 51. Nxe2 { KQNPvKQ with DTZ -5 } 51... Qd8+ 52. Kc1 Qa8 53. Qg1+ Kxe2 { KQPvKQ with DTZ 55 } 54. Qd1+ Kf2 55. Qd7 Ke1 56. Qe6+ Kf1 57. Qf7+ Ke1 58. Kb2 Qg2+ 59. Ka3 Qe4 60. Kb3 Qb1+ 61. Ka4 Qc2+ 62. Kb5 Qe4 63. Kc5 Qe3+ 64. Kc6 Qc3+ 65. Kb7 Qb4+ 66. Kc8 Qe4 67. Kc7 Qe5+ 68. Kd8 Qd4+ 69. Qd7 Qb6+ 70. Ke8 Qg6+ 71. Qf7 Qc6+ 72. Kf8 Qh6+ 73. Qg7 Qf4+ 74. Ke8 Qa4+ 75. Qd7 Qa5 76. Kf8 Kf1 77. Qb7 Qa3+ 78. Kf7 Qa2+ 79. Kg7 Qa1+ 80. Kg6 Qb1+ 81. Qxb1+ { KQPvK with DTZ -2 } 81... Ke2 82. a8=Q { KQQvK with DTZ -4 } 82... Kd2 83. Qc1+ Ke2 84. Qf3+ Kxf3 { KQvK with DTZ 11 } 85. Qe1 Kg2 86. Qe2+ Kg1 87. Kf5 Kh1 88. Ke4 Kg1 89. Kf3 Kh1 90. Qg2# { Checkmate } 0-1 [Event "KQBNvKQP"] [Site ""] [Date "????.??.??"] [Round "-"] [White "Syzygy"] [Black "Syzygy"] [Result "1-0"] [FEN "6k1/8/8/8/8/8/pB6/Q1K1q2N w - - 0 1"] [Annotator "shakmaty-syzygy"] [WDL "Win"] [DTZ "100"] [WinningMoves "Kc2"] [DrawingMoves ""] [LosingMoves ""] { KQBNvKQP with DTZ 100 } 1. Kc2 Qe2+ 2. Kc3 Qe3+ 3. Kc4 Qe6+ 4. Kd4 Qg4+ 5. Kd5 Qf3+ 6. Kd6 Qf8+ 7. Ke5 Qg7+ 8. Kf4 Qh6+ 9. Kf3 Qc6+ 10. Kf2 Qc5+ 11. Bd4 Qf5+ 12. Kg2 Qe4+ 13. Kg3 Qd3+ 14. Kf4 Qd2+ 15. Kg4 Qe2+ 16. Kh3 Qh5+ 17. Kg2 Qd5+ 18. Kg1 Qg5+ 19. Kf1 Qb5+ 20. Ke1 Qb4+ 21. Bc3 Qe4+ 22. Kd2 Qg2+ 23. Ke3 Qh3+ 24. Kd4 Qg4+ 25. Kd5 Qf3+ 26. Kd6 Qd3+ 27. Ke7 Qb1 28. Be5 Qb7+ 29. Kf6 Qf3+ 30. Kg5 Qe3+ 31. Kg4 Qe4+ 32. Kg3 Qd3+ 33. Kf4 Qd2+ 34. Kg4 Qd7+ 35. Kh4 Qh7+ 36. Kg5 Qe7+ 37. Kf4 Qb4+ 38. Kg3 Qb3+ 39. Kh4 Qb4+ 40. Kh3 Qb3+ 41. Ng3 Qe6+ 42. Kh4 Qe7+ 43. Kg4 Qb4+ 44. Kh3 Qb1 45. Qd4 Qh7+ 46. Qh4 Qb1 47. Qe7 Qg6 48. Kh4 Qh6+ 49. Nh5 Qg6 50. Qg7+ Qxg7 { KBNvKQP with DTZ 1 } 51. Bxg7 { KBNvKP with DTZ -10 } 51... Kf7 52. Ba1 Ke6 53. Ng3 Kd5 54. Ne2 Kc4 55. Nc1 Kb4 56. Nxa2+ { KBNvK with DTZ -61 } 56... Kb3 57. Nc1+ Kc2 58. Ne2 Kb3 59. Nd4+ Kb4 60. Ne6 Kb3 61. Kg4 Kc4 62. Kf5 Kd5 63. Be5 Kc4 64. Ke4 Kb5 65. Kd5 Kb6 66. Nc5 Ka5 67. Nd7 Kb5 68. Bd4 Kb4 69. Nc5 Ka5 70. Nd3 Kb5 71. Bg1 Ka5 72. Kc6 Ka4 73. Kc5 Kb3 74. Nb4 Kb2 75. Be3 Kb3 76. Bd2 Ka4 77. Nc2 Kb3 78. Ne1 Ka4 79. Kc4 Ka3 80. Nd3 Ka4 81. Nb2+ Ka3 82. Kc3 Ka2 83. Nc4 Kb1 84. Kb3 Ka1 85. Be3 Kb1 86. Na3+ Ka1 87. Bd4# { Checkmate } 1-0 [Event "KBPPvKRN"] [Site ""] [Date "????.??.??"] [Round "-"] [White "Syzygy"] [Black "Syzygy"] [Result "0-1"] [FEN "3k3r/8/P5P1/8/K7/8/1n6/3B4 w - - 0 1"] [Annotator "shakmaty-syzygy"] [WDL "Loss"] [DTZ "-100"] [WinningMoves ""] [DrawingMoves ""] [LosingMoves "Ka3, Kb3, Kb4, Ka5, Kb5"] { KBPPvKRN with DTZ -100 } 1. Kb5 Kc7 2. Bf3 Kb8 3. Kc6 Rh3 4. Be4 Re3 5. Bd5 Rg3 6. Be4 Na4 7. Bf5 Re3 8. Bg4 Re4 9. Bh3 Re1 10. Bg4 Nc3 11. Kd7 Nd5 12. Be6 Nf6+ 13. Ke7 Nh5 14. Kf7 Ka7 15. Bh3 Rg1 16. Be6 Kb6 17. Bc8 Rf1+ 18. Ke7 Ng7 19. Bg4 Rf2 20. Bc8 Rc2 21. Bb7 Rc7+ 22. Kf6 Ne8+ 23. Kg5 Rc3 24. Kf5 Re3 25. Kf4 Rd3 26. Ke5 Rd6 27. Be4 Rd1 28. Bb7 Re1+ 29. Kf5 Re2 30. Kg5 Kc7 31. Kf5 Rd2 32. Ke6 Rd7 33. Bh1 Kd8 34. Bb7 Rd6+ 35. Kf5 Ng7+ 36. Kg5 Kc7 37. Kh6 Nf5+ 38. Kh7 Rd7+ 39. Kh8 Rd4 40. Kg8 Rf4 41. Kf7 Nh4+ 42. Kg7 Rg4 43. Kh6 Nf5+ 44. Kh7 Kb6 45. Bf3 Rd4 46. Be2 Rd2 47. Bf1 Ne7 48. Bc4 Rg2 49. Bd3 Rg3 50. Bb1 Kxa6 { KBPvKRN with DTZ -32 } 51. Kg7 Rf3 52. Kh8 Rb3 53. Be4 Rb4 54. Bd3+ Ka5 55. Bc2 Rc4 56. Bd3 Rd4 57. Bb1 Kb4 58. Kg7 Rf4 59. Ba2 Rf2 60. Be6 Kc5 61. Bb3 Kd4 62. Bd1 Ke4 63. Bb3 Kf5 64. Bc4 Rd2 65. Bf7 Rd6 66. Ba2 Nxg6 { KBvKRN with DTZ -16 } 67. Bb1+ Kg5 68. Kf7 Nf4 69. Ba2 Rd7+ 70. Ke8 Rd2 71. Bb1 Rb2 72. Bh7 Rb8+ 73. Kd7 Rb7+ 74. Kc6 Rxh7 { KvKRN with DTZ -16 } 75. Kb5 Nd5 76. Kc4 Kf4 77. Kb3 Ke3 78. Kb2 Rh2+ 79. Kb1 Nc3+ 80. Kc1 Nb1 81. Kd1 Re2 82. Kc1 Rd2 83. Kxb1 { KvKR with DTZ 9 } 83... Re2 84. Ka1 Kd3 85. Kb1 Kc3 86. Ka1 Kb3 87. Kb1 Re1# { Checkmate } 0-1 [\pgn][/pgn]

[duncan]

The problem is that this information is not in any of the existing EGT. The DTM tables don't respect the 50-move rule, so that positions with large DTM might actually be draws. The DTZ tables do tell you which positions can be won respecting the 50-move rule, but they do not tell you their DTM.

I tried to look for the 10 longest DTM in descending order. The longest I could find was mate in 125. Does this look at all accurate to you. ?

Also there are no draws with the longest legal 6 piece endings.

[Paloma]

I tried to look for the 10 longest DTM in descending order. The longest I could find was mate in 125. Does this look at all accurate to you. ?

Mate in 125 ? It is a mate in 68 !!

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "?"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/1q6/8/4Q3/8/8/B4n2/NK1k4 w - - 0 1"]
[Move_number "0"]
[Is_demo_mode "false"]

1. Bb3+ Kd2 2. Qb2+ Ke3 3. Nc2+ Kf4 4. Qf6+ Kg3 5. Nd4 Ng4 6. Qf5 Qh1+ 7. Kb2 Qh2+ 8. Ka3 Qd2 9. Qf3+ Kh4 10. Qh1+ Kg3 11. Qg1+ Kh3 12. Be6 Qc3+ 13. Ka4 Qf3 14. Qe1 Qf4 15. Qb4 Kh4 16. Ka5 Ne5 17. Ka6 Kg5 18. Qc5 Qe4 19. Bf5 Qa8+ 20. Kb5 Qb8+ 21. Ka4 Kf6 22. Be4 Kf7 23. Nf5 Qe8+ 24. Kb3 Kf6 25. Nd4 Qg8+ 26. Ka3 Qd8 27. Ka2 Qb8 28. Ka1 Qd8 29. Kb1 Qe7 30. Qb6+ Kg5 31. Ne6+ Kf6 32. Bd5 Qh7+ 33. Kb2 Qh2+ 34. Kb3 Qg3+ 35. Ka4 Nf7 36. Nd8+ Nd6 37. Nf7 Qg4+ 38. Ka3 Qd7 39. Kb4 Ke7 40. Qc5 Qb5+ 41. Qxb5 Nxb5 42. Kxb5 Kf6 43. Kc5 Kg6 44. Nd6 Kf6 45. Kd4 Kg6 46. Ke5 Kg7 47. Be4 Kg8 48. Kf6 Kf8 49. Nf7 Kg8 50. Bd3 Kf8 51. Bh7 Ke8 52. Ne5 Kd8 53. Be4 Ke8 54. Bd5 Kf8 55. Nd7+ Ke8 56. Ke6 Kd8 57. Kd6 Ke8 58. Bc4 Kd8 59. Bf7 Kc8 60. Nc5 Kd8 61. Nb7+ Kc8 62. Kc6 Kb8 63. Nd6 Ka8 64. Bc4 Kb8 65. Kb6 Ka8 66. Kc7 Ka7 67. Nc8+ Ka8 68. Bd5# 1-0