Fritz 17

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ThatsIt
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Re: Fritz 17

Post by ThatsIt » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:33 am

BrendanJNorman wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:33 am
[...snip...]
3. About Ginkgo, what do we know about this engine at this moment? Style? Strength? Tunability? I know very little personally.
About strength:

Code: Select all

CEGT 40/20
Deep Shredder 13 x64   3154 /  6525 games
Ginkgo 2.18 x64        3144 /  2100 games

http://www.cegt.net/40_40%20Rating%20List/40_40%20SingleVersion/rangliste.html

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CEGT 40/4
Ginkgo 2.18 x64        3154 /  4100 games
Deep Shredder 13 x64   3151 / 11450 games

http://www.cegt.net/40_4_Ratinglist/40_4_single/rangliste.html

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CEGT 3'+1" pb=on
Ginkgo 2.18 x64        3151 /  2800 games
Deep Shredder 13 x64   3150 /  2800 games

http://www.cegt.net/3Plus1Rating/3plus1Purelist/rangliste.html

Code: Select all

CEGT 5'+3" pb=on
Ginkgo 2.18 x64        3167 /  1500 games
Deep Shredder 13 x64   3150 /  1500 games

http://www.cegt.net/5Plus3Rating/Purelist/rangliste.html

Best wishes,
G.S.
(CEGT team)

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Ovyron
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Re: Fritz 17

Post by Ovyron » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:41 am

BrendanJNorman wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:33 am
About Ginkgo, what do we know about this engine at this moment? Style? Strength? Tunability? I know very little personally.
You can read about it on here.

As for its style... well, here's Ginkgo beating Fire from the black side...



I liked it until it became a shufflefest, but at least Ginkgo doesn't feel fishy :wink:

cc2150dx
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Re: Fritz 17

Post by cc2150dx » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:12 pm

Nordlandia wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:11 am
What is the difference between "Fritz17Setup_x64" and "Fritz17Setup_Win10" ?

Both list as 64-bit on installation. Having both alternatives is :?

I run on Windows 10 64-bit.
"Fritz17Setup_Win10" is the version you want. All the other versions are for Windows 7/8.
Komodo tester

carldaman
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Re: Fritz 17

Post by carldaman » Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:39 am

BrendanJNorman wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:33 am
Ovyron wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:26 am
BrendanJNorman wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:56 am
Recently when Komodo 13.2 came out, I saw the new "personalities" feature and since this is the area of computer chess that interests me most, and I can afford the small fee, I bought it.
I guess the question is: was it worth the asking price? Did it provide anything that the best Rodent personalities didn't?

My point was these things exist because there are people with some extra money and they don't know what to do with it, so they give them an option, and this would prove it :)

Not that I'm anything different, I'll be getting Fritz 17 because I've been wanting to be able to use private engine Ginkgo very badly for several years now, and I'll finally get my chance, even if I'll probably check it out and then leave it unused to gain dust like I did with Shredder 13. But at least I'm picking Ginkgo over Komodo 13 because I doubt I'll see the difference with K11, I just hope Ginkgo provides in the originality department :mrgreen:
1. You know I'm in love with Rodent, so nothing can replace him. :lol: And I was a bit dissapointed with the Komodo 13 stock personalities to be honest... for example, the "beginner" personality is still stronger than Deep Junior....yeah right...beginner. :lol: :roll:

On the other hand, the "Human", "Positional" and one I made myself are pretty nice, although still not with as distinct a style as I've managed with Rodent.

2. I don't think people "don't know what to do with their extra money" - they simply have it - and they often use it (deliberately) to pursue hobbies. I bought Komodo 13.2 and will probably buy Fritz 17 too...mainly as someone else said though, for the GUI improvements and the engine.

The 7 man live tablebase access will be fun too for studying various endings.

3. About Ginkgo, what do we know about this engine at this moment? Style? Strength? Tunability? I know very little personally.

The built-in Komodo personalities are supposed to work better in conjunction with lower Skill levels. Adjust Skill setting below 20 accordingly, until suitable to your needs.

I like Ginkgo's style, a nice mix of activity and solidity so far. Still testing it. Not very tunable, though, beyond Contempt/Draw Score there are no other useful settings, which is a bit disappointing.

BrendanJNorman
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Re: Fritz 17

Post by BrendanJNorman » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:41 am

carldaman wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:39 am
BrendanJNorman wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:33 am
Ovyron wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:26 am
BrendanJNorman wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:56 am
Recently when Komodo 13.2 came out, I saw the new "personalities" feature and since this is the area of computer chess that interests me most, and I can afford the small fee, I bought it.
I guess the question is: was it worth the asking price? Did it provide anything that the best Rodent personalities didn't?

My point was these things exist because there are people with some extra money and they don't know what to do with it, so they give them an option, and this would prove it :)

Not that I'm anything different, I'll be getting Fritz 17 because I've been wanting to be able to use private engine Ginkgo very badly for several years now, and I'll finally get my chance, even if I'll probably check it out and then leave it unused to gain dust like I did with Shredder 13. But at least I'm picking Ginkgo over Komodo 13 because I doubt I'll see the difference with K11, I just hope Ginkgo provides in the originality department :mrgreen:
1. You know I'm in love with Rodent, so nothing can replace him. :lol: And I was a bit dissapointed with the Komodo 13 stock personalities to be honest... for example, the "beginner" personality is still stronger than Deep Junior....yeah right...beginner. :lol: :roll:

On the other hand, the "Human", "Positional" and one I made myself are pretty nice, although still not with as distinct a style as I've managed with Rodent.

2. I don't think people "don't know what to do with their extra money" - they simply have it - and they often use it (deliberately) to pursue hobbies. I bought Komodo 13.2 and will probably buy Fritz 17 too...mainly as someone else said though, for the GUI improvements and the engine.

The 7 man live tablebase access will be fun too for studying various endings.

3. About Ginkgo, what do we know about this engine at this moment? Style? Strength? Tunability? I know very little personally.

The built-in Komodo personalities are supposed to work better in conjunction with lower Skill levels. Adjust Skill setting below 20 accordingly, until suitable to your needs.

I like Ginkgo's style, a nice mix of activity and solidity so far. Still testing it. Not very tunable, though, beyond Contempt/Draw Score there are no other useful settings, which is a bit disappointing.
Thanks Carl, that makes a lot more sense....silly me!

Looking forward to having a look at F17.

A weird feeling comes to mind when reflecting on the day I bought Fritz 7 from a tournament bookstall back in 2002.

Ten versions later... :shock:

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Ovyron
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Re: Fritz 17

Post by Ovyron » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:21 am

carldaman wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:39 am
I like Ginkgo's style, a nice mix of activity and solidity so far. Still testing it. Not very tunable, though, beyond Contempt/Draw Score there are no other useful settings, which is a bit disappointing.
Yeah, I got it and like that it has an unique style very unlike other top engines (though I have no idea where's it at, maybe it plays like Ethereal/Laser/Xyphos and I wouldn't know :shock: ). Just don't expect it to play as great as Houdini 6 or Leela...

It didn't pass the "analysis test", though, as a companion for Stockfish, Houdini or Komodo are still much better choices.

BUT, a clear improvement over Fritz 16 is that it detects that the computer is old and doesn't support new instructions, and installs a "NoPopcnt" version! Instead of forcing you to use 32bit!

For that I'm glad Rybka is dead, I guess it's time to update my avatar...

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Ozymandias
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Re: Fritz 17

Post by Ozymandias » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:53 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:21 am
For that I'm glad Rybka is dead, I guess it's time to update my avatar...
Long overdue, we've talked about Vas "involvement" in F15 as far back as summer, 2015. For me, the confirmation that there was no future for the engine, came exactly at this point. The original article being from Albert Silver (figures).

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Guenther
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Re: Anaconda (pre-Ginkgo)

Post by Guenther » Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:43 am

Modern Times wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:01 am
carldaman wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:11 pm
Also, it could be worth noting that Ginkgo had been listed on CCRl 40/40 as a private engine, but then it was
pulled from the list just around the same time as the Fritz 17 discussion first sprang up. :)
I don't know why that was, I wouldn't read anything into it. Graham asked for it to be removed and it was. They were his games. I'm not sure why it was there at all, we don't have private engines on the 40/40 list.
Sorry, for the late pushing.

Now after Ginkgo finally was revealed as new F17 program, I noticed that Anaconda (Kai Skibbe + Frank Schneider) also is still on the CCRL lists.
Only version 2.01 though, while I still have three betas between 2.06 and 2.07 lingering here.

May be it would be a good point in time to ask them, if they wouldn't mind/object a release of their old Anaconda?
AFAIK it was probably leaked anyway into the open, as I see it listed in the supersharp guy (so called) tournaments.

My last contact to Kai was long ago though, may be CCRL might ask? :)

Edit:
Ok, I did it nevertheless and Kais mail address seems still to work.

Edit2:
A pity it bounced a bit later

Found an old site entry saved in wayback:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100227121 ... /index.htm
Current foe list count : [101]
http://rwbc-chess.de/chronology.htm

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Guenther
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Re: Fritz 17

Post by Guenther » Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:37 pm

What is the supported max cpu number (according to the uci options) for Fritz 17?
Asking for info, because I added now a Ginkgo entry to the XB/UCI chronology.

(note that some programs detect the max mumber themselves and then write the number of your cores)
Current foe list count : [101]
http://rwbc-chess.de/chronology.htm

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Ovyron
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Re: Fritz 17

Post by Ovyron » Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:53 pm

My Ginkgo maxes out at 4CPU, but it seems to detect your hardware before installation, so maybe it installed one that could not use more than 4 by default (for instance, if I upgraded my CPU to one that allowed popcount, I wouldn't be able to make use of it because the one that works in my machine was installed; would probably need to install it again...)

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