World Fischer Random Championship

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lkaufman
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by lkaufman » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:41 am

duncan wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:38 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:17 pm
duncan wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:41 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:29 pm
duncan wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:54 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:55 pm
It seems to me that Fischer Random is working out better than I expected; I thought it would solve only the preparation problem in chess, but it seems to be doing wonders for the draw rate as well, as has already been shown in computer chess in the CCRL testing.
Do you have any thoughts on why Fischer Random should reduce the draw rate. Is it because without the 100 year background of opening moves research, moves are objectively worse leading to many more errors in the opening?
Yes, that's right. The more moves players have to make on their own, without the benefit of knowing what others have played or what computers recommend, the more chances for mistakes, and since chess (both standard and frc) is almost certainly drawn without mistakes the more chance for error, the more chance for a decisive result.
Do you have any idea what the percentage of draws komodo gets in self play comparing Fischer Random, regular chess without opening book?
We never test komodo in normal chess with no opening book, because the variety would be too limited. I suppose you mean to test with four threads or so in order to rely on MP to produce some variety, but it wouldn't be enough to be meaningful. We have tested with Kai's three move book, which is about as close to no book as you can get for a meaningful test. It does reduce the draw percentage, but not by the large amounts we see with frc. One reason for less draws in frc (in engine play) may be that same side castling is not so overwhelmingly likely as in normal chess.
Is it possible to ban same side castling in normal chess, or would that be unfair to black.?
Actually, I have proposed that, precisely BECAUSE it is unfair to Black! The point is that White's advantage might be enough to justify awarding draws to Black, making every chess game an Armageddon game. I can't easily test it on engines because the rules would require special programming. The only drawback I can see is that probably White's advantage is not quite enough to fully offset draw odds; probably Black would have something like a 60 to 40 edge in engine or correspondence play. I think that it could be made pretty close to fair by some tweaks, such as awarding stalemate to the superior side, not automatically to Black, and perhaps doing the same for king and minor piece vs king.
Komodo rules!

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Ovyron
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by Ovyron » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:10 am

lkaufman wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:40 pm
Actually I think that the castling rules of normal chess are illogical, in that queenside castling should result in Kb1, Rc1 (as many novices think it does) as this is the mirror of kingside castling and is a much more likely stable formation than Kc1, Rd1. This change would make queenside castling more common, and would make chess less drawish I think, but I know it's not going to happen.
We can agree to that!

Except, why is it not going to happen? All it requires is a big prize tournament with big names and if it works as an improvement of Chess perhaps it'll gain momentum and people will move to it (just, please, I beg you, don't name it Fat Chess...)

After all, Chess has been an evolution of the rules, at some point castling was implemented, I don't think people of the era said something like "chess would be better with castling, but I know it's not going to happen." Imagine if King to b file castling was a much better game than chess and I have yet to play it!

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Nordlandia
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by Nordlandia » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:09 am

So what's the consensus towards Kb1 and Rc1 castling on the queenside?

Chessqueen
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by Chessqueen » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:49 pm

Nordlandia wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:09 am
So what's the consensus towards Kb1 and Rc1 castling on the queenside?
I believe that GM So will shock the World by beating GM Carlsen :shock:

Chessqueen
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by Chessqueen » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:32 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:49 pm
Nordlandia wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:09 am
So what's the consensus towards Kb1 and Rc1 castling on the queenside?
I believe that GM So will shock the World by beating GM Carlsen :shock:

You can watch it tomorrow here https://www.frchess.com/

Chessqueen
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by Chessqueen » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:29 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:32 pm
Chessqueen wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:49 pm
Nordlandia wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:09 am
So what's the consensus towards Kb1 and Rc1 castling on the queenside?
I believe that GM So will shock the World by beating GM Carlsen :shock:

You can watch it LIVE here https://www.frchess.com/

What chess Skills do you consider the most important to be Successful in Fischer Random Chess ? Good opening principles knowledge, Tactics, Strategies, or all the above ?

lkaufman
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by lkaufman » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:42 pm

Nordlandia wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:09 am
So what's the consensus towards Kb1 and Rc1 castling on the queenside?
It's probably a slightly improved version, but the difference from normal chess isn't enough to convince the chess world to switch. If we hope to have millions of chess players adopt a new variant, it must solve major problems to justify making all previous games obsolete. Chess 960 does this; I don't think it's the perfect solution, but it is the only variant that has enough popularity and sponsorship to be considered seriously as a new version of chess.
By the way, it was just stated by the president of FIDE that they are working on a FIDE rating system for frc and that it should be ready in months, not years. This is huge.
Komodo rules!

Chessqueen
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by Chessqueen » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:50 pm

lkaufman wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:42 pm
Nordlandia wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:09 am
So what's the consensus towards Kb1 and Rc1 castling on the queenside?
It's probably a slightly improved version, but the difference from normal chess isn't enough to convince the chess world to switch. If we hope to have millions of chess players adopt a new variant, it must solve major problems to justify making all previous games obsolete. Chess 960 does this; I don't think it's the perfect solution, but it is the only variant that has enough popularity and sponsorship to be considered seriously as a new version of chess.
By the way, it was just stated by the president of FIDE that they are working on a FIDE rating system for frc and that it should be ready in months, not years. This is huge.
I like the idea that the FIDE President will implement a unique FRC Chess960 rating, but they have to come out with a better time control, or should I say a FRC chess rating for different time controls just like in standard position #518 Chess. I prefer this than using a Universal Rating System http://universalrating.com/ratings.php
Since with the Universal Caruana is ahead of GM SO, but GM So is much better Blitz and FRC player than GM Caruana

You can watch it LIVE here https://www.frchess.com/
Last edited by Chessqueen on Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:58 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Modern Times
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by Modern Times » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:51 pm

lkaufman wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:42 pm

By the way, it was just stated by the president of FIDE that they are working on a FIDE rating system for frc and that it should be ready in months, not years. This is huge.
Fantastic, I've long been a fan of FRC. For computer chess at least, I've always thought opening books have destroyed chess. Standard chess is just tolerable to me when I use a 4 move opening book for engine matches. This mostly applies to human chess as well of course - except those books are contained in the players' heads not on disc !
.

Opinions expressed here are my own, and not necessarily those of the CCRL Group.

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Nordlandia
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by Nordlandia » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:14 pm

FIDE need to review the castling rules. There is so many variables in FRC that need to be covered. Should two hand castling be allowed?

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