World Fischer Random Championship

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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lkaufman
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by lkaufman » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:29 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:50 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:42 pm
Nordlandia wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:09 am
So what's the consensus towards Kb1 and Rc1 castling on the queenside?
It's probably a slightly improved version, but the difference from normal chess isn't enough to convince the chess world to switch. If we hope to have millions of chess players adopt a new variant, it must solve major problems to justify making all previous games obsolete. Chess 960 does this; I don't think it's the perfect solution, but it is the only variant that has enough popularity and sponsorship to be considered seriously as a new version of chess.
By the way, it was just stated by the president of FIDE that they are working on a FIDE rating system for frc and that it should be ready in months, not years. This is huge.
I like the idea that the FIDE President will implement a unique FRC Chess960 rating, but they have to come out with a better time control, or should I say a FRC chess rating for different time controls just like in standard position #518 Chess. I prefer this than using a Universal Rating System http://universalrating.com/ratings.php
Since with the Universal Caruana is ahead of GM SO, but GM So is much better Blitz and FRC player than GM Caruana

You can watch it LIVE here https://www.frchess.com/
The FIDE president indicated that this question of what time controls to rate and how to rate them is the main issue to be resolved before things can proceed with frc ratings. I strongly dislike that the "slow" games in this championship have no increment, and the fast ones only 2 seconds.
Komodo rules!

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Ovyron
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by Ovyron » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:02 pm

Sounds like people with money got to decide what game would replace chess.

lkaufman
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by lkaufman » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:59 pm

Wesley So won a fantastic second game today (after first was drawn) so now leads 4.5 to 1.5, the slow games counting triple. The event so far is a huge boost for frc.
Komodo rules!

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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by jp » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:06 pm

It'd be nice if we could post playable pgn here, but I assume the BB pgn code won't cope with castling.

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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by Chessqueen » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:39 am

jp wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:06 pm
It'd be nice if we could post playable pgn here, but I assume the BB pgn code won't cope with castling.
But if you have Komodo or Stockfish you should NOT have any problem :mrgreen:

By the way in most Championship the second is usually another strong human player, but for this FRChess championship if they are provide at least 5 minutes to study the position I suppose it is replaced by either Komodo or Stockfish to provide them with the best opening preparation :roll:

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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by lkaufman » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:19 am

Ovyron wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:02 pm
Sounds like people with money got to decide what game would replace chess.
Well, there is some truth to this, but if there weren't a lot of people watching these FRC top-level events, sponsorship would dry up. With a draw rate of 92% in the last two title matches (excluding the rapid playoffs), how appealing can it be for a business to sponsor the next standard world championship? If they switch sponsorship to FRC it would be because the viewers prefer to watch due to the lower draw rate and the minimal computer preparation. It's the viewing public that would be driving the change, the people with money are just the vote-counters.
Komodo rules!

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Ovyron
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by Ovyron » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:06 am

lkaufman wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:19 am
Well, there is some truth to this, but if there weren't a lot of people watching these FRC top-level events, sponsorship would dry up. With a draw rate of 92% in the last two title matches (excluding the rapid playoffs), how appealing can it be for a business to sponsor the next standard world championship? If they switch sponsorship to FRC it would be because the viewers prefer to watch due to the lower draw rate and the minimal computer preparation. It's the viewing public that would be driving the change, the people with money are just the vote-counters.
But they're not giving a fair chance to other chess variants, it's like they already decided what was the best contender and they sent it out. Perhaps the audience would have accepted with open arms anything they decided to sponsor, and there's many variants that weren't even considered, such as billiards chess (where bishops bounce off the walls to make fancy moves), cylindrical chess (where pieces can go to the walls of the board and come out from the other side), Seirawan chess (it is weird that we never use a Rook+knight or a Knight+Bishop piece arbitrarily) or even pocket chess (where players start the game with pieces they can drop on the board at a later time).

I just hope this is the start of experimenting with chess variants and end with the one that is the most fun. If chess is on its way out and players and audiences are hungry for something different, picking Fischer random just because it solves some problems and it's good enough would be a shame.

We need some kind of metatournament of variants, where players are exposed to them in world championships like this, and if after players try others they decide FRC is the best one to replace chess, then I'll be happy to embrace the change. I won't be happy if we just moved to the first alternative that was tried out (unless a normal game followed by an Armageddon game was a serious alternative - in that case the metatrounament has already started).

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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by zenpawn » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:48 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:25 pm
Our Normal chess is position #518 in Chess960, also notice that playing our Normal Standard Chess Position in Chess960 the Castling is done differently watch this video carefully, you can NOT castle by simply picking up the King and dropping it on the g square, you have to drop the King on top of the Rook sitting on the h square :roll:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dbAHd5Yd5k
That's just how you do it online to make your intent obvious to the software when it could otherwise be ambiguous.
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by the_real_greco » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:36 pm

I've said it before, I'll say it again- as soon as the major engines support FRC, the CCC will play a 960 event.

*Glares at Lc0*

lkaufman
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Re: World Fischer Random Championship

Post by lkaufman » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:50 pm

Ovyron wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:06 am
lkaufman wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:19 am
Well, there is some truth to this, but if there weren't a lot of people watching these FRC top-level events, sponsorship would dry up. With a draw rate of 92% in the last two title matches (excluding the rapid playoffs), how appealing can it be for a business to sponsor the next standard world championship? If they switch sponsorship to FRC it would be because the viewers prefer to watch due to the lower draw rate and the minimal computer preparation. It's the viewing public that would be driving the change, the people with money are just the vote-counters.
But they're not giving a fair chance to other chess variants, it's like they already decided what was the best contender and they sent it out. Perhaps the audience would have accepted with open arms anything they decided to sponsor, and there's many variants that weren't even considered, such as billiards chess (where bishops bounce off the walls to make fancy moves), cylindrical chess (where pieces can go to the walls of the board and come out from the other side), Seirawan chess (it is weird that we never use a Rook+knight or a Knight+Bishop piece arbitrarily) or even pocket chess (where players start the game with pieces they can drop on the board at a later time).

I just hope this is the start of experimenting with chess variants and end with the one that is the most fun. If chess is on its way out and players and audiences are hungry for something different, picking Fischer random just because it solves some problems and it's good enough would be a shame.

We need some kind of metatournament of variants, where players are exposed to them in world championships like this, and if after players try others they decide FRC is the best one to replace chess, then I'll be happy to embrace the change. I won't be happy if we just moved to the first alternative that was tried out (unless a normal game followed by an Armageddon game was a serious alternative - in that case the metatrounament has already started).
I think that FRC is still considered to be just a modified version of chess, not a new game like some of the ones you mention. After the first dozen moves have been played, many games look like normal chess games, and the rules are identical once the kings have moved or castled. The same players are the best at both games. Some of your variants are quite different, maybe the best players would be different. By the way, we did make Komodo for Seirawan chess about 7 years ago, which proved itself by playing a match with Seirawan. In the first game a bug showed up that blundered a piece, but K still got a draw by perpetual check. After the bug was fixed, Komodo won all the remaining games (ten I think). But there was not enough interest to market Komodo S-chess.
Komodo rules!

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