The optimalized Fat Fritz

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: bob, hgm, Harvey Williamson

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
corres
Posts: 1757
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

The optimalized Fat Fritz

Post by corres » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:34 am

Albert Silver wrote an article about optimization of Fat Fritz.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/optimizing-fat-fritz
I made some test to investigate the effect of the optimization on Fat Fritz.
Machine:
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950x 16 x 4 GHz, HT/SMT = OFF, turbo = OFF, no throttling
2 x RTX 2060 OC
RAM 32 GB
OS: Windows 10 64 bits
Chess GUI: DeepFritz 14

NN engines:
Lc0 ver.0.22.0
Fat Fritz on lc0 ver.1.0
Parameters of engines:
Lc0 parameters
-Threads 4
-Backend multiplexing
-BackendOptions backend=cudnn-fp16,(gpu=0),(gpu=1)
-NNCacheSize 10000000
-MaxPrefetchBatch 64
Others are Default.
Fat Fritz parameters
a, Default Fat Fritz (Fat Fritz-def) parameters excluding
-Threads 4
-Backend multiplexing
-BackendOptions backend=cudnn-fp16
-NNCacheSize 10000000
Others are Default
b,Using Lc0 parameters (Fat Fritz-lc0) - every parameters of Fat Fritz are modified to Lc0 parameters.

Test params:
-Time Control 1 min + 2 sec/ move
-Openings 50 position (my TestBook50) with alternated colors

Results
1, Fat Fritz against 42872 net
a, 42872 : Fat Fritz-def = 6 : 3 (91 draw) 100 games
b, Fat Fritz-lc0 : 42872 = 6 : 3 (91 draw) 100 games
It seems the optimized Fat Fritz becomes weaker against 42872 net.

2, Fat Fritz against T40B.4-160 net
a, T40B.4-160 : Fat Fritz-def = 9 : 5 (86 draw) 100 games
b, T40B.4-160 : Fat Fritz-lc0 = 12 : 5 (83 draw) 100 games
In this case the optimization enhanced the power of Fat Fritz in some measure (+ 3 games).
But the optimized Fat Fritz with its own net is also weaker then Lc0 with T40B.4-160.

3, Fat Fritz against Stockfish 191002
a, Stockfish191002 : Fat Fritz-def = 17 : 11 (72 draw) 100 games
b, Stockfish191002 : Fat Fritz-lc0 = 20 : 8 (72 draw) 100 games
Against Stockfish the optimization also overhauled Fat Fritz (+ 6 games)
But Fat Fritz on 2 x RTX 2060 OC (~ RTX 2080 Ti OC) is obviously weaker than Stockfish on a 16 x 4 GHz PC.

corres
Posts: 1757
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

Re: The optimalized Fat Fritz

Post by corres » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:24 am

corres wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:34 am
Albert Silver wrote an article about optimization of Fat Fritz.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/optimizing-fat-fritz
I made some test to investigate the effect of the optimization on Fat Fritz.
Machine:
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950x 16 x 4 GHz, HT/SMT = OFF, turbo = OFF, no throttling
2 x RTX 2060 OC
RAM 32 GB
OS: Windows 10 64 bits
Chess GUI: DeepFritz 14

NN engines:
Lc0 ver.0.22.0
Fat Fritz on lc0 ver.1.0
Parameters of engines:
Lc0 parameters
-Threads 4
-Backend multiplexing
-BackendOptions backend=cudnn-fp16,(gpu=0),(gpu=1)
-NNCacheSize 10000000
-MaxPrefetchBatch 64
Others are Default.
Fat Fritz parameters
a, Default Fat Fritz (Fat Fritz-def) parameters excluding
-Threads 4
-Backend multiplexing
-BackendOptions backend=cudnn-fp16,(gpu=0),(gpu=1) <<-- CORRECTION!
-NNCacheSize 10000000
Others are Default
b,Using Lc0 parameters (Fat Fritz-lc0) - every parameters of Fat Fritz are modified to Lc0 parameters.

Test params:
-Time Control 1 min + 2 sec/ move
-Openings 50 position (my TestBook50) with alternated colors

Results
1, Fat Fritz against 42872 net
a, 42872 : Fat Fritz-def = 6 : 3 (91 draw) 100 games
b, Fat Fritz-lc0 : 42872 = 6 : 3 (91 draw) 100 games
It seems the optimized Fat Fritz becomes weaker against 42872 net.

2, Fat Fritz against T40B.4-160 net
a, T40B.4-160 : Fat Fritz-def = 9 : 5 (86 draw) 100 games
b, T40B.4-160 : Fat Fritz-lc0 = 12 : 5 (83 draw) 100 games
In this case the optimization enhanced the power of Fat Fritz in some measure (+ 3 games).
But the optimized Fat Fritz with its own net is also weaker then Lc0 with T40B.4-160.

3, Fat Fritz against Stockfish 191002
a, Stockfish191002 : Fat Fritz-def = 17 : 11 (72 draw) 100 games
b, Stockfish191002 : Fat Fritz-lc0 = 20 : 8 (72 draw) 100 games
Against Stockfish the optimization also overhauled Fat Fritz (+ 6 games)
But Fat Fritz on 2 x RTX 2060 OC (~ RTX 2080 Ti OC) is obviously weaker than Stockfish on a 16 x 4 GHz PC.

shrapnel
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:43 am
Location: New Delhi, India

Re: The optimalized Fat Fritz

Post by shrapnel » Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:37 pm

So what's the Conclusion ?

Fat Fritz SUX ? :lol:
i7 5960X @ 4.1 Ghz, 64 GB G.Skill RipJaws RAM, Twin Asus ROG Strix OC 11 GB Geforce 2080 Tis

User avatar
Nordlandia
Posts: 2471
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: Sortland, Norway

Re: The optimalized Fat Fritz

Post by Nordlandia » Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:29 pm

Fat Fritz is said to get new weight_file soon.

Anyway do you guys urge me to buy another RTX 2080 Super for 2x 2080 Super OC in NVlink.

2x 2080 Super OC (Asus) is said be about equivalent to one and a half 2080 Ti in performance.

corres
Posts: 1757
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

Re: The optimalized Fat Fritz

Post by corres » Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:44 pm

shrapnel wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:37 pm
So what's the Conclusion ?
Fat Fritz SUX ?
Fat Fritz is further developed and better version of DeusX.
As every engines Fat Fritz has the own weak points and strong points.
Only the practical user - like you - can decide about Fat Fritz.
I used only short time control and a medium powered hardware with relative few games.
So the final conclusion should be said by the community of chess engine users.
Note
If I were you I would try the parameters of Fat Fritz on Leela with J13B.2-188 net.
Parameters of Fat Fritz give more aggressive playing than the default Leela parameters.
Maybe Leela will be stronger with them.

corres
Posts: 1757
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

Re: The optimalized Fat Fritz

Post by corres » Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:49 pm

Nordlandia wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:29 pm
Fat Fritz is said to get new weight_file soon.
Anyway do you guys urge me to buy another RTX 2080 Super for 2x 2080 Super OC in NVlink.
2x 2080 Super OC (Asus) is said be about equivalent to one and a half 2080 Ti in performance.
It depends on the used net and the used RTX product but 2 x RTX 2080 Super OC ~ 1.7 x RTX 2080 Ti in chess power.

shrapnel
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:43 am
Location: New Delhi, India

Re: The optimalized Fat Fritz

Post by shrapnel » Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:02 pm

corres wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:44 pm
shrapnel wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:37 pm
So what's the Conclusion ?
Fat Fritz SUX ?
Fat Fritz is further developed and better version of DeusX.
As every engines Fat Fritz has the own weak points and strong points.
Only the practical user - like you - can decide about Fat Fritz.
I used only short time control and a medium powered hardware with relative few games.
So the final conclusion should be said by the community of chess engine users.
Note
If I were you I would try the parameters of Fat Fritz on Leela with J13B.2-188 net.
Parameters of Fat Fritz give more aggressive playing than the default Leela parameters.
Maybe Leela will be stronger with them.
Tell me the parameters, I will check it out.
i7 5960X @ 4.1 Ghz, 64 GB G.Skill RipJaws RAM, Twin Asus ROG Strix OC 11 GB Geforce 2080 Tis

corres
Posts: 1757
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

Re: The optimalized Fat Fritz

Post by corres » Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:38 pm

shrapnel wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:02 pm
corres wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:44 pm
shrapnel wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:37 pm
So what's the Conclusion ?
Fat Fritz SUX ?
Fat Fritz is further developed and better version of DeusX.
As every engines Fat Fritz has the own weak points and strong points.
Only the practical user - like you - can decide about Fat Fritz.
I used only short time control and a medium powered hardware with relative few games.
So the final conclusion should be said by the community of chess engine users.
Note
If I were you I would try the parameters of Fat Fritz on Leela with J13B.2-188 net.
Parameters of Fat Fritz give more aggressive playing than the default Leela parameters.
Maybe Leela will be stronger with them.
Tell me the parameters, I will check it out.
I do not know how like it Albert Silver.
Maybe they are patented.
Please, ask him.

corres
Posts: 1757
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

Re: The optimalized Fat Fritz

Post by corres » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:52 pm

corres wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:38 pm
shrapnel wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:02 pm
corres wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:44 pm
shrapnel wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:37 pm
So what's the Conclusion ?
Fat Fritz SUX ?
Fat Fritz is further developed and better version of DeusX.
As every engines Fat Fritz has the own weak points and strong points.
Only the practical user - like you - can decide about Fat Fritz.
I used only short time control and a medium powered hardware with relative few games.
So the final conclusion should be said by the community of chess engine users.
Note
If I were you I would try the parameters of Fat Fritz on Leela with J13B.2-188 net.
Parameters of Fat Fritz give more aggressive playing than the default Leela parameters.
Maybe Leela will be stronger with them.
Tell me the parameters, I will check it out.
I do not know how like it Albert Silver.
Maybe they are patented.
Please, ask him.
Note
In the cited article of Albert Silver you can see parameters of Fat Fritz on pictures.
Try them.

corres
Posts: 1757
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:41 am
Location: hungary

Re: The optimalized Fat Fritz

Post by corres » Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:15 am

You can download the test files:
http://wikisend.com
Download
File ID 322386
Password fatfritztest

Post Reply