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AMD Ryzen R9 3950X new build

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:38 am
by cma6
Based on the benchmark tests for Nodes/sec http://www.ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd- ... -bench.php ,
it seems that AMD Ryzen R9 3950X delivers the best value ($/nps). Can the experts like "corres" and others recommend best components for a new AMD Ryzen R9 3950X build.
Thanks, CMA

Re: AMD Ryzen R9 3950X new build

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:21 am
by Laskos
cma6 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:38 am
Based on the benchmark tests for Nodes/sec http://www.ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd- ... -bench.php ,
it seems that AMD Ryzen R9 3950X delivers the best value ($/nps). Can the experts like "corres" and others recommend best components for a new AMD Ryzen R9 3950X build.
Thanks, CMA
Not even sure whether 3900X isn't a better deal.

Re: AMD Ryzen R9 3950X new build

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:34 am
by corres
cma6 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:38 am
Based on the benchmark tests for Nodes/sec http://www.ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd- ... -bench.php ,
it seems that AMD Ryzen R9 3950X delivers the best value ($/nps). Can the experts like "corres" and others recommend best components for a new AMD Ryzen R9 3950X build.
Thanks, CMA
Sorry, I was waiting for R9 3950x for a long time but I read some article about the issues of 3900 series (motherboard, BIOS, cooling, etc) so I decided to build a system with Threadripper 2950x. The 3950x is faster in some % but it is unimportant opposite to the stability and reliability.
There are some AMD fans on this site maybe they could help you.

Re: AMD Ryzen R9 3950X new build

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:55 pm
by cma6
Thanks, corres, then until these issue are resolved with 3900 series, it seems best to either go with TR 2950X or wait till it's safe to go with R9 3950X or perhaps TR3960X (24 core; $1400, not as good a value as the other two but about 30% faster than TR 2950X.
Do you have the url for the article about 3900 series problems?
What are the components and nps of your new 2950X build?

Re: AMD Ryzen R9 3950X new build

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:05 pm
by Dann Corbit
I think it is a mistake to use the cost of the CPU in an attempt to determine nodes per dollar.
You really need to consider the cost of the entire system.
Also important is nodes per watt, because that is a real cost too.

So, for instance, the new TR3 chips should probably get dinged for demanding a new MB, and a very expensive one at that.
And the 3950 and 3900 both require a chiller, which is not included with the CPU. You pay extra for that.

The only way to really know what sort of a deal you are getting is to price the whole system.
And if there is a substantial difference in power draw, you should think about that too.

Re: AMD Ryzen R9 3950X new build

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:20 pm
by Zenmastur
cma6 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:50 am
Zenmastur wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:56 pm
Approximate cost performance ratios for the R9 3900X, R9 3950X, Threadripper 3960X and Threadripper 3970X for a new build with a RTX2060 super and 64GB DDR4-3200 ram. The only specs that differ is the CPU, MB (AM4 vice TRX40), and power supply is larger for the two threadripper systems. Does not include keyboard, mouse, or monitor.
3900X $1235 @ ~45Mnps = ~ 36knps/$
3950X $1485 @ ~60Mnps = ~ 40Knps/$
3960X $2680 @ ~90Mnps = ~ 34Knps/$
3970X $3280 @ ~105Mnps=~ 32Knps/$
Zen: I am looking to build a new system and find your calculations compelling. But how did you get your cost figures: chip + GPU + RAM or what? Because if you did not include mobo with the huge difference in mobo cost for TR3 vs. R9, then it would be confusing.
Do you have an updating now that we have firm prices on TR3 and Ipman's benchmark's http://www.ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd- ... -bench.php ?

Thanks, CMA
The costs are for the CPU, MB, PS, RAM, GPU, Cooler, and case.

3900X= $550+$170+$90+$290+$400+$0+$85=$1585 @ ~45Mnps = ~ 28.4knps/$
3950X= $800+$170+$90+$290+$400+$90+$85=$1925 @ ~60Mnps = ~ 31.2Knps/$
3960X=$1575+$400+$100+$290+$400+$90+$85=$2940 @ ~90Mnps = ~ 30.6Knps/$
3970X=$2075+$400+$100+$290+$400+$90+$85=$3440 @ ~105Mnps=~ 30.5Knps/$

I added a small premium for the CPU since most are being sold for more than MSRP. I didn't change the nodes per second to correspond to those found on IPMAN's web site because I believe these are attainable figure with properly tuned memory and a good cooler. I.e, a Noctua NH-D14 or 15. The AM4 Motherboard is the GIGABYTE X570 AORUS ELITE and the STRX40 MB is the GIGABYTE TRX40 AORUS PRO WIFI.
Laskos wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:21 am
cma6 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:38 am
Based on the benchmark tests for Nodes/sec http://www.ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd- ... -bench.php , it seems that AMD Ryzen R9 3950X delivers the best value ($/nps). Can the experts like "corres" and others recommend best components for a new AMD Ryzen R9 3950X build.
Thanks, CMA
Not even sure whether 3900X isn't a better deal.
For a new build the Ryzen 9 3950X gives the best bang for the buck. And in the US about ~16,500 will be available in the next week. They will go fast so be ready when they start appearing on Wednesday.
corres wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:34 am
cma6 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:38 am
Based on the benchmark tests for Nodes/sec http://www.ipmanchess.yolasite.com/amd- ... -bench.php ,
it seems that AMD Ryzen R9 3950X delivers the best value ($/nps). Can the experts like "corres" and others recommend best components for a new AMD Ryzen R9 3950X build.
Thanks, CMA
Sorry, I was waiting for R9 3950x for a long time but I read some article about the issues of 3900 series (motherboard, BIOS, cooling, etc) so I decided to build a system with Threadripper 2950x. The 3950x is faster in some % but it is unimportant opposite to the stability and reliability.
There are some AMD fans on this site maybe they could help you.
Those articles are out of date. There are NO known issues that should stop anyone from buying a Ryzen 9 3950X other than their availability. In the US several large batch are expected to be delivered in the next week which should help with availability.

Also, the Ryzen 9 3950X DOES NOT need to be water cooled. It actually draws less power than the Ryzen 9 3900X at full load due to it's excellent voltage frequency scaling and AMD's binning process.

Sorry I didn't respond ealier but I've been ill.

Regards,

Zenmastur

Re: AMD Ryzen R9 3950X new build

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:46 pm
by Dann Corbit
Zenmastur wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:20 pm

The costs are for the CPU, MB, PS, RAM, GPU, Cooler, and case.

3900X= $550+$170+$90+$290+$400+$0+$85=$1585 @ ~45Mnps = ~ 28.4knps/$
3950X= $800+$170+$90+$290+$400+$90+$85=$1925 @ ~60Mnps = ~ 31.2Knps/$
3960X=$1575+$400+$100+$290+$400+$90+$85=$2940 @ ~90Mnps = ~ 30.6Knps/$
3970X=$2075+$400+$100+$290+$400+$90+$85=$3440 @ ~105Mnps=~ 30.5Knps/$
So everything is 30K NPS per dollar.

The differences per dollar are small enough to be irrelevant (IMO-YMMV).

So the final question would come down to money and time.
If you are willing to wait two and one third times as long for a result (on conversely, process 3/7 the amount of data in the same amount of time) then it makes sense to buy the 3900x over even the 3970. The 3970 is only 1/7 faster than the 3960. Is the extra 1/7 time to solution worth the extra 500 dollars to you?
Sorry I didn't respond ealier but I've been ill.
I hope you are feeling better.

Re: AMD Ryzen R9 3950X new build

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:17 pm
by dragontamer5788
One of Threadripper's primary advantages is 64x PCIe lanes. Granted, many of those are used for Ethernet / SATA / Sound / USB / NVMe / etc. etc., but most Threadripper MoBos offer 48x PCIe lanes of expansion (16+16+8+8).

So a Threadripper build should be looking at 3x GPUs or 4x GPUs if you're thinking of a GPU-based engine. If you're only running 1x or 2x GPUs, a Ryzen 3900x or 3950x (only 20x PCIe lanes: usually a 8x + 8x setup) would probably be better.

EDIT: Threadripper Mobos also come with 8x DIMM slots and 4x memory channels (compared to Ryzen 3950x, which only has 4x DIMM slots on 2x memory channels). If you need the extra RAM, the extra GPUs, and/or the extra cores, that's where Threadripper comes in.

Re: AMD Ryzen R9 3950X new build

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:18 am
by Zenmastur
dragontamer5788 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:17 pm
One of Threadripper's primary advantages is 64x PCIe lanes. Granted, many of those are used for Ethernet / SATA / Sound / USB / NVMe / etc. etc., but most Threadripper MoBos offer 48x PCIe lanes of expansion (16+16+8+8).

So a Threadripper build should be looking at 3x GPUs or 4x GPUs if you're thinking of a GPU-based engine. If you're only running 1x or 2x GPUs, a Ryzen 3900x or 3950x (only 20x PCIe lanes: usually a 8x + 8x setup) would probably be better.

EDIT: Threadripper Mobos also come with 8x DIMM slots and 4x memory channels (compared to Ryzen 3950x, which only has 4x DIMM slots on 2x memory channels). If you need the extra RAM, the extra GPUs, and/or the extra cores, that's where Threadripper comes in.
The last few posts seem to sum up the major options. Two notes, I didn't spec an HDD's or SSD's in the prices listed above. But minimum storage configurations shouldn't change the analysis by much. But you should plan on adding one or more mass storage devices depending on your needs. The GPU spec'd was a RTX 2060 Super. But this can, of course, be changed for those that want more GPU horse power or those that want to save money and don't plan on using NN engines.

Regards,

Zenmastur

AMD Ryzen R9 3950X new build

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:37 am
by cma6
Thanks to Zen, Dragon & Dann for the replies. Zen's 3950X build looks to be a value system for all the components.
However, Giga got rather negative reviews on Amazon so I would be looking for a mid-level ASUS mobo if anyone has suggestions.
So I would aim more for a mid-level 3950X build

I would want 3 NVMe internal drives for Win10; 7-man TBs; everything else. (No more HDDs in any personal computer systems.)

GPU: I might be looking at 1 or 2 X RTX 2070 Super; or is this a waste of time and not worth bothering about because I really need 2 X RTX 2080ti to be competitive in lc0?

What about RAM, case, and cooler recommendations?

Thanks, cma