A Gilden rematch

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: bob, hgm, Harvey Williamson

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
lkaufman
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Contact:

Re: A Gilden rematch

Post by lkaufman » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:21 am

This was the first win by a human master in the last twelve pre-announced knight odds rapid games on chess.com. Komodo failed to obtain any initiative or compensation for the piece, Gilden methodically simplified and won cleanly.

Komodo rules!

lkaufman
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Contact:

Re: A Gilden rematch

Post by lkaufman » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:31 am

White got a strong attack right out of the opening (The Scandinavian 1...d5 is ideal at b1 odds but not so good at g1 odds) and won quite quickly. Final score 3.5 to 1.5 (3 wins for Komodo, 1 win for Gilden, 1 draw). Komodo won all three at g1 odds, but lost 1.5 to 0.5 at b1 odds. Perhaps 1.f4 isn't so good at knight (b1) odds, but with 1.e4 dubious at that handicap due to 1...d5 the move 1.f4 was often chosen by 19th century masters when they were worried about 1.e4 d5; it's not clear what other White move offers chances of a complicated enough game for knight odds.

Komodo rules!

dannyb
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:08 pm
Full name: Daniel Bennett

Re: A Gilden rematch

Post by dannyb » Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:38 pm

thanks for the games and congrats to FM lgilden for winning a game against Komodo! and of course to Team Komodo for winning the match.

will this Komodo NN be released at some point?

lkaufman
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Contact:

Re: A Gilden rematch

Post by lkaufman » Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:26 pm

dannyb wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:38 pm
thanks for the games and congrats to FM lgilden for winning a game against Komodo! and of course to Team Komodo for winning the match.

will this Komodo NN be released at some point?
Our intent is for this Komodo NN to be a new Komodo product. It is already quite a bit stronger than Komodo MCTS without NN (assuming you have a good GPU), but we think it needs to be stronger than normal Komodo to be a viable product, although it is already my engine for choice for analysis, since it is already stronger than either normal or MCTS Komodo in multiPV mode. Whether that will take a week or a year is impossible to predict; if we just improve it incrementally it may take a while, but if we hit on one good idea it could happen quickly.
I hope we'll be able to do a knight odds match in the near future with an IM or even a GM at a time limit suitable based on the opponent. One thing I'll have to think about based on this match is whether we should continue to alternate the knight or just do g1 odds. With the g1 knight missing White can play normal openings generally, but with b1 missing he has to resort to unusual openings.
Komodo rules!

dannyb
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:08 pm
Full name: Daniel Bennett

Re: A Gilden rematch

Post by dannyb » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:16 pm

lkaufman wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:26 pm
Our intent is for this Komodo NN to be a new Komodo product. It is already quite a bit stronger than Komodo MCTS without NN (assuming you have a good GPU), but we think it needs to be stronger than normal Komodo to be a viable product, although it is already my engine for choice for analysis, since it is already stronger than either normal or MCTS Komodo in multiPV mode. Whether that will take a week or a year is impossible to predict; if we just improve it incrementally it may take a while, but if we hit on one good idea it could happen quickly.
good luck to you and Mark then. Looking forward to this new version.

User avatar
Nordlandia
Posts: 2551
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: Sortland, Norway

Re: A Gilden rematch

Post by Nordlandia » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:54 am

The announcement Komodo NN can be something similar to a christmas gift from team Komodo.

Maybe opt for GPU donation for Komodo NN improvement. Stockfish and Leela relies on voluntary CPU / GPU donation. Maybe this is something to consider.

lkaufman
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Contact:

Re: A Gilden rematch

Post by lkaufman » Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:26 am

Nordlandia wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:54 am
The announcement Komodo NN can be something similar to a christmas gift from team Komodo.

Maybe opt for GPU donation for Komodo NN improvement. Stockfish and Leela relies on voluntary CPU / GPU donation. Maybe this is something to consider.
Right now the focus is on how to best combine Komodo with any existing NN, rather than making our own NN. Once we have found a sufficiently good way to do that, we will likely turn our attention to the NN itself. But for the way we are using the NN now, it wouldn't be a sensible use of resources to try to make a better net, it's much more important to find the best use of existing nets.
Komodo rules!

dannyb
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:08 pm
Full name: Daniel Bennett

Re: A Gilden rematch

Post by dannyb » Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:06 pm

lkaufman wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:26 am
Right now the focus is on how to best combine Komodo with any existing NN, rather than making our own NN. Once we have found a sufficiently good way to do that, we will likely turn our attention to the NN itself. But for the way we are using the NN now, it wouldn't be a sensible use of resources to try to make a better net, it's much more important to find the best use of existing nets.
is Komodo NN based on the MCTS version or on the AB one?

User avatar
Laskos
Posts: 9961
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:21 pm
Full name: Kai Laskos

Re: A Gilden rematch

Post by Laskos » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:30 pm

dannyb wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:06 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:26 am
Right now the focus is on how to best combine Komodo with any existing NN, rather than making our own NN. Once we have found a sufficiently good way to do that, we will likely turn our attention to the NN itself. But for the way we are using the NN now, it wouldn't be a sensible use of resources to try to make a better net, it's much more important to find the best use of existing nets.
is Komodo NN based on the MCTS version or on the AB one?
Must be MCTS, NNs are convoluted and slow, AB for now is undoable with them. But Mark and Larry have a peculiar MCTS, let's see how it will fare with existing nets when they will iron out the engine.

lkaufman
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Contact:

Re: A Gilden rematch

Post by lkaufman » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:07 pm

dannyb wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:06 pm
lkaufman wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:26 am
Right now the focus is on how to best combine Komodo with any existing NN, rather than making our own NN. Once we have found a sufficiently good way to do that, we will likely turn our attention to the NN itself. But for the way we are using the NN now, it wouldn't be a sensible use of resources to try to make a better net, it's much more important to find the best use of existing nets.
is Komodo NN based on the MCTS version or on the AB one?
This NN version is Komodo MCTS with a little help from NN. We also have a version of normal K that gets help from NN, but the benefit is too small to be interesting so far in that version.
Komodo rules!

Post Reply