SF 11 on Christmas?

[Paloma]

Suspiciously quiet on abrok, sf11 on the way?

[Jouni]

What's is happening in this (CCC game 119):

[pgn]
[White "Stockfish"]
[Black "Lc0"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]

1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. d4 g6 4. e5 Nh6 5. Bf4 Nf5 6. c3 Qb6 7. Qc1 h5 8. Nbd2 Bh6
9. Bxh6 Nxh6 10. Be2 Nd7 11. O-O Nf8 12. b4 a5 13. bxa5 Qxa5 14. a4 Qd8 15. c4
Ne6 16. Nb3 Kf8 17. cxd5 Qxd5 18. Bc4 Qd8 19. a5 Kg7 20. Rd1 Nc7 21. Nc5 Nd5 22.
Bxd5 cxd5 23. Qc3 b6 24. axb6 Rxa1 25. Qxa1 Qxb6 26. Rb1 Qc7 27. h3 Nf5 28. Ng5
h4 29. Rb4 Rf8 30. Nf3 Rh8 31. Kh2 Rg8 32. Ng5 Rh8 33. Rb1 Rg8 34. g4 hxg3+ 35.
fxg3 Rf8 36. g4 Ne3 37. Qa2 Nc4 38. Rb7 Qa5 39. Qxa5 Nxa5 40. Rxe7 Nc6 41. Rc7
Nxd4 42. e6 Nb5 43. Re7 Nd6 44. h4 d4 45. Ra7 Nb5 46. Ra5 Nc7 47. exf7 Bxg4 48.
Ra7 Nb5 49. Nce6+ Bxe6 50. Nxe6+ Kf6 51. Ra6 Rxf7 52. Nxd4+ Kg7 53. Nxb5 Kh6 54.
Kg3 Rf1 55. Nd4 Rg1+ 56. Kf4 Kh5 57. Nf3 Rg4+ 58. Ke3 Rb4 59. Kf2 Rg4 60. Rb6
Ra4 61. Rd6 Rg4 62. Rb6 Ra4 63. Rb5+ Kh6 64. Ke2 Ra2+ 65. Kd3 Ra3+ 66. Ke2 Ra2+
67. Kd3 Ra3+ 68. Ke4 Ra4+ 69. Nd4 Rc4 70. Ra5 Rb4 71. Rc5 Ra4 72. Ke3 Rb4 73.
Ra5 Rc4 74. Rd5 Ra4 75. Rb5 Ra1 76. Rd5 Ra4 77. Re5 Ra3+ 78. Kf4 Ra4 79. Ke3
Ra3+ 80. Ke2 Ra4 81. Rd5 Ra1 82. Kd2 Ra2+ 83. Ke1 Rh2 84. Nf3 Rg2 85. Kf1 Ra2
86. Kg1 Rb2 87. Kf1 Ra2 88. Re5 Rb2 89. Rc5 Ra2 90. Rd5 Rb2 91. Nd2 Rb4 92. Nf3
Rb2 93. Rg5 Rb4 94. Rc5 Ra4 95. Re5 Ra2 96. Rb5 Ra4 97. Kf2 Ra2+ 98. Kg3 Ra3 99.
Rb7 Rc3 100. Kg4 Rc4+ 101. Kg3 Rc3 102. Kg4 Rc4+ 103. Kg3 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]

SF has +147,92 long time and draw. And they claim 7 piece syzygy access. . Again GHI thing?

[Damir]

Maybe bug in tablebases ? corrupt tbs ?

[mclane]

Why ? Who cares if there is a progress of 40 ELO ?

There will be no progress in computerchess by this kind of programming.

Buy a computer twice as fast and use the old version. Will bring more ELO.

[chrisw]

Why ? Who cares if there is a progress of 40 ELO ?

There will be no progress in computerchess by this kind of programming.

Buy a computer twice as fast and use the old version. Will bring more ELO.

Nonsense. Stockfish brilliant project is Communism 2.0 in real actual action.

[Uri Blass]

SF was closest to winning at move 57 when the syzygy tablebases say
Ra5+ DTZ 36 but played Nf3 that is only DTZ 54

I think that the problem is that the stockfish team do not test from random tablebases positions and only test from random opening positions.
They should test patches from random 7 piece tablabases positions to see if there is an idea that can give an improvement in these cases.

It is possible that some patch give an improvement in 7 piece tablabases positions but is counterproductive in normal games but even in this case it is good to know it and it is possible to use the patch only when the engine get to 7 piece tablbases positions.

[mehmet1921]

Why ? Who cares if there is a progress of 40 ELO ?

There will be no progress in computerchess by this kind of programming.

Buy a computer twice as fast and use the old version. Will bring more ELO.

By this kind of progress there is ~450 elo progress since Stockfish 2.3.1 in 7 years.

http://www.cegt.net/40_40%20Rating%20Li ... liste.html

Stockfish passes 3500 elo at 4 core. I don't know why 3500+ elo isn' t enough for you.

[mclane]

Why ? Who cares if there is a progress of 40 ELO ?

There will be no progress in computerchess by this kind of programming.

Buy a computer twice as fast and use the old version. Will bring more ELO.

Nonsense. Stockfish brilliant project is Communism 2.0 in real actual action.

Nonsense. Stockfish is deep searcher. It will lose the race against LC0 or any other intelligent idea because it the others play better chess.

Which is why programs seem to keep making progress on the SSDF list. And why reviewers, either dumb, or with axes to grind, wax lyrical about the latest programs.

And

So I call it counting beans - useless for us humans.

Now, take a knowledge program, you can play it and see the play style. You can try and work out what it does and why. There'll be a reason, based on human chess heuristics. The game has plan, and flow, and doesn't consist of hidden minefields. It won't grind you down by search, it will try speculative ideas which it might, or might not, be able to get to work. You can see the speculative ideas, and try them yourself. I think you can, as a human, relate to this type of program. If you know the programmer, maybe you can see patterns into the program that come from him, and so on. I think these types of programs are infused with some force, in so far as any chunk of silicon can be.

I hate materialists.

This race between Komodo and Stockfish leads to nowhere.

[mclane]

Why ? Who cares if there is a progress of 40 ELO ?

There will be no progress in computerchess by this kind of programming.

Buy a computer twice as fast and use the old version. Will bring more ELO.

By this kind of progress there is ~450 elo progress since Stockfish 2.3.1 in 7 years.

http://www.cegt.net/40_40%20Rating%20Li ... liste.html

Stockfish passes 3500 elo at 4 core. I don't know why 3500+ elo isn' t enough for you.

Stockfish is not the first fast searcher I met.

And it was always the same with them.

[mclane]

Stockfish is not the first fast searcher I met.

And it was always the same with them.
It’s completely unimportant if stockfish 10 is 40 elo weaker then Stockfish 11.

The people will download the latest version but they don’t really care what is different or if it is different or if it is 40 ELO stronger.
Because these 40 ELO do not really exist.
As I said you can take stockfish 10 on a faster computer and would have the same results.

Do you think anybody is interested in a program that increases playing strength from 3400 to 3440 ?

Maybe mark Lefler or Larry Kaufmann is interested. They need to make Komodo stronger.
But the rest of the world needs no stockfish 11.

Because there is no progress in quality of moves.
There is only difference in ELO.

If you have a car that drives 200 km/h and the successor of this car drives 220 km/h
This is nice. But it is no real thing that shocks the people. It’s no quality difference.

You can even let this car drive 300 km/h.
That will not make the customers more convinced.

As long as the quality of the ride is not better.

The real change comes not from stockfish but from LC0.