Fat Fritz, SV 3010 and the Nimzo-Indian

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dkappe
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Fat Fritz, SV 3010 and the Nimzo-Indian

Post by dkappe » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:06 pm

After testing t60 and FF in the Najdorf, I decided to step up to the big nets: Sergio’s 384x30 nets trained on t60 games. I had to extend the TC so the big net got enough nodes. A bit past halfway. Let’s see how we go.

3... Bb4 plus the most popular lines 1 ply after that. TC 3 min + 2 sec.

RTX 2070. SF11 gets 8 cpu. Lc0 0.24

The test will run until 400.

Code: Select all


1) FFv471      30 :    236 (+32,=191,-13),  54.0 %

   vs.               :  games (  +,   =,  -),   (%) :   Diff,   SD, CFS (%)
   384x30-3010       :    118 (  6, 108,  4),  50.8 :    +27,   11,   99.4
   SF11              :    118 ( 26,  83,  9),  57.2 :    +30,   12,   99.5

2) 384x30-3010  3 :    236 (+11,=206,-19),  48.3 %

   vs.               :  games (  +,   =,  -),   (%) :   Diff,   SD, CFS (%)
   FFv471            :    118 (  4, 108,  6),  49.2 :    -27,   11,    0.6
   SF11              :    118 (  7,  98, 13),  47.5 :     +3,   12,   60.1
I begin to understand why TCEC use such oddball openings. Who wants to see 93% drawn games? But who wants to play oddball openings over the board?
Last edited by dkappe on Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dkappe
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Re: Fat Fritz, SV 3010 and the Nimzo-Indian

Post by dkappe » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:07 pm

Yes, and all the usual games with colors reversed, before anybody asks.

mmt
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Re: Fat Fritz, SV 3010 and the Nimzo-Indian

Post by mmt » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:44 pm

Nice tournament and a very good result for FF so far.

lkaufman
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Re: Fat Fritz, SV 3010 and the Nimzo-Indian

Post by lkaufman » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:25 am

dkappe wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:06 pm
After testing t60 and FF in the Najdorf, I decided to step up to the big nets: Sergio’s 384x30 nets trained on t60 games. I had to extend the TC so the big net got enough nodes. A bit past halfway. Let’s see how we go.

3... Bb4 plus the most popular lines 1 ply after that. TC 3 min + 2 sec.

RTX 2070. SF11 gets 8 cpu. Lc0 0.24

The test will run until 400.

Code: Select all


1) FFv471      30 :    236 (+32,=191,-13),  54.0 %

   vs.               :  games (  +,   =,  -),   (%) :   Diff,   SD, CFS (%)
   384x30-3010       :    118 (  6, 108,  4),  50.8 :    +27,   11,   99.4
   SF11              :    118 ( 26,  83,  9),  57.2 :    +30,   12,   99.5

2) 384x30-3010  3 :    236 (+11,=206,-19),  48.3 %

   vs.               :  games (  +,   =,  -),   (%) :   Diff,   SD, CFS (%)
   FFv471            :    118 (  4, 108,  6),  49.2 :    -27,   11,    0.6
   SF11              :    118 (  7,  98, 13),  47.5 :     +3,   12,   60.1
I begin to understand why TCEC use such oddball openings. Who wants to see 93% drawn games? But who wants to play oddball openings over the board?
I think that lots of very strong players would be happy to play oddball openings over the board, if they were guaranteed a second game with the same opening and reversed colors, as in your test.
Komodo rules!

corres
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Re: Fat Fritz, SV 3010 and the Nimzo-Indian

Post by corres » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:38 am

lkaufman wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:25 am
...
I think that lots of very strong players would be happy to play oddball openings over the board, if they were guaranteed a second game with the same opening and reversed colors, as in your test.
It would give a much more established Elo rating list, I think.

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Ovyron
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Re: Fat Fritz, SV 3010 and the Nimzo-Indian

Post by Ovyron » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:21 am

lkaufman wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:25 am
I think that lots of very strong players would be happy to play oddball openings over the board, if they were guaranteed a second game with the same opening and reversed colors, as in your test.
Yes! A strategy would be to get into a difficult position that you have dedicated to master, where you already know how to draw but those lines are very difficult to find, so you ensure a drawn game and very high chances for a decisive game in your favor (at least more chances than in a normal game without reversed colors.)

Nelson Hernandez
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Re: Fat Fritz, SV 3010 and the Nimzo-Indian

Post by Nelson Hernandez » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:07 pm

WHAT oddball openings???

dkappe
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Re: Fat Fritz, SV 3010 and the Nimzo-Indian

Post by dkappe » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:37 pm

The Nimzo-off is complete (sf11cpu8, ff and sv 3010 on rtx 2070).

Code: Select all


1) FFv471      37 :    400 (+51,=322,-27),  53.0 %

   vs.               :  games (  +,   =,  -),   (%) :   Diff,   SD, CFS (%)
   384x30-3010       :    200 (  8, 183,  9),  49.8 :     +5,    9,   72.6
   SF11              :    200 ( 43, 139, 18),  56.2 :    +37,    9,  100.0

2) 384x30-3010 32 :    400 (+39,=337,-24),  51.9 %

   vs.               :  games (  +,   =,  -),   (%) :   Diff,   SD, CFS (%)
   FFv471            :    200 (  9, 183,  8),  50.2 :     -5,    9,   27.4
   SF11              :    200 ( 30, 154, 16),  53.5 :    +32,    9,  100.0

The nets are in a dead heat, but Fat Fritz has the edge over SF11. Definitely a better performance for 3010 than for t60 in the Najdorf.

dkappe
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Re: Fat Fritz, SV 3010 and the Nimzo-Indian

Post by dkappe » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:59 pm

I’ve put up all the decisive games in the Dorf-off on lichess in 15 studies, Dorf-off 1 thru 15. https://lichess.org/study/UES6Dwmp

dkappe
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Re: Fat Fritz, SV 3010 and the Nimzo-Indian

Post by dkappe » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:13 pm

There were some duplicate games in the nimzo woodpile. Removing those we get:

Code: Select all


1) FFv471      41 :    333 (+51,=258,-24),  54.1 %

   vs.               :  games (  +,   =,  -),   (%) :   Diff,   SD, CFS (%)
   384x30-3010       :    136 (  8, 119,  9),  49.6 :     +8,   10,   79.1
   SF11              :    197 ( 43, 139, 15),  57.1 :    +41,   10,  100.0

2) 384x30-3010 33 :    336 (+39,=273,-24),  52.2 %

   vs.               :  games (  +,   =,  -),   (%) :   Diff,   SD, CFS (%)
   FFv471            :    136 (  9, 119,  8),  50.4 :     -8,   10,   20.9
   SF11              :    200 ( 30, 154, 16),  53.5 :    +33,   10,  100.0


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