Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

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lkaufman
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Re: Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

Post by lkaufman » Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:30 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:28 am
jp wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:01 am
0-1. Komodo is checkmated.

Match level 1-1.

----------------------

Game 3: after 6 moves, already -5.00. Komodo needs a better opening book.
Miro says the opening went extremely well for Smerdon.
I was analyzing with the Regular Komodo and it detected that Komodo MTCS made a horrible blunder. I Believe that you should use the regular Komodo for Tomorrow, and that will create more tension to the GM knowing that he will be playing with a totally different version of Komodo.

PS: Can they also use the other version of Komodo to analyze besides the commentaries of the Humans ?
Yes, I think we'll do that. This was the plan, unless Komodo MCTS did well enough today to make that unnecessary. I don't have anything to do with what they use for commentary. By the way, was the "horrible blunder" played before or after the result was totally obvious? What move number? Komodo MCTS will start to play silly moves once it's really hopelessly lost, like two pieces down or more.
Komodo rules!

lkaufman
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Re: Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

Post by lkaufman » Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:52 am

jp wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:01 am
0-1. Komodo is checkmated.

Match level 1-1.

----------------------

Game 3: after 6 moves, already -5.00. Komodo needs a better opening book.
Miro says the opening went extremely well for Smerdon.

Smerdon plays h6 and g5.

After 15 moves, Black should win easily.
I think that the -5 is a Stockfish eval, which is about like -3.65 or so for Komodo. Slightly worse than the initial position, but not way worse. Once it plays e4, it's hard to give advice when missing the b1 knight, since the exchange on d5 is too simple (despite the win in the first game), and the e5 advance is also not good. Maybe we just can't let it play e4 early when missing b1 knight.
Komodo rules!

Chessqueen
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Re: Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

Post by Chessqueen » Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:45 am

lkaufman wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:26 am
Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:04 am
Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:28 am
jp wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:01 am
0-1. Komodo is checkmated.

Match level 1-1.

----------------------

Game 3: after 6 moves, already -5.00. Komodo needs a better opening book.
Miro says the opening went extremely well for Smerdon.
I was analyzing with the Regular Komodo and it detected that Komodo MTCS made a horrible blunder. I Believe that you should use the regular Komodo for Tomorrow, and that will create more tension to the GM knowing that he will be playing with a totally different version of Komodo.

PS: Can they also use the other version of Komodo to analyze besides the commentaries of the Humans ?
Komodo MCTS best chance is to play a Knight for a pawn, whereas the GM will remove one of his pawn and the engine his knight. Probably in 6 months Komodo NN might beat the same GM with a Knight Odd. You can probably raise the price to $150 for a Win and $50 for a Draw, if the GM accept to play the rest of the games tomorrow with a Knight for a pawn.
Komodo (both versions) already scored 2.5 out of 3 giving knight for pawn (details differed) to MVL and Naka, perhaps the two best rapid players in the world after MC. For a future match, GM Alex Lenderman suggested knight for tempo; White plays his move, Black uses his first move to "capture" the knight (remove it), and White gets a second move, presumably 1.e4 and 2.d4, then it's Black's turn. Philidor used to give this handicap. I think it is suitable for a midrange GM in rapid. It just needs a good name!

I still do not get it, can somebody please illustrate with a GUI with the first few moves until the Knight is removed from the board :?:
For example :


Chessqueen
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Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:16 am
Full name: Nancy M Pichardo

Re: Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

Post by Chessqueen » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:17 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:45 am
lkaufman wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:26 am
Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:04 am
Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:28 am
jp wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:01 am
0-1. Komodo is checkmated.

Match level 1-1.

----------------------

Game 3: after 6 moves, already -5.00. Komodo needs a better opening book.
Miro says the opening went extremely well for Smerdon.
I was analyzing with the Regular Komodo and it detected that Komodo MTCS made a horrible blunder. I Believe that you should use the regular Komodo for Tomorrow, and that will create more tension to the GM knowing that he will be playing with a totally different version of Komodo.

PS: Can they also use the other version of Komodo to analyze besides the commentaries of the Humans ?
Komodo MCTS best chance is to play a Knight for a pawn, whereas the GM will remove one of his pawn and the engine his knight. Probably in 6 months Komodo NN might beat the same GM with a Knight Odd. You can probably raise the price to $150 for a Win and $50 for a Draw, if the GM accept to play the rest of the games tomorrow with a Knight for a pawn.
Komodo (both versions) already scored 2.5 out of 3 giving knight for pawn (details differed) to MVL and Naka, perhaps the two best rapid players in the world after MC. For a future match, GM Alex Lenderman suggested knight for tempo; White plays his move, Black uses his first move to "capture" the knight (remove it), and White gets a second move, presumably 1.e4 and 2.d4, then it's Black's turn. Philidor used to give this handicap. I think it is suitable for a midrange GM in rapid. It just needs a good name!

I still do not get it, can somebody please illustrate with a GUI with the first few moves until the Knight is removed from the board :?:
For example :

Do you mean something like this 1. e4 1.d5 2.Nc3 2.d4 3.Nge2 allowing Black to capture the knight on c3, But this will give White a tempo with a Knight being develop whereas Black simply gets the knight for the pawn.

lkaufman
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Re: Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

Post by lkaufman » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:03 am

Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:17 am
Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:45 am
lkaufman wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:26 am
Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:04 am
Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:28 am
jp wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:01 am
0-1. Komodo is checkmated.

Match level 1-1.

----------------------

Game 3: after 6 moves, already -5.00. Komodo needs a better opening book.
Miro says the opening went extremely well for Smerdon.
I was analyzing with the Regular Komodo and it detected that Komodo MTCS made a horrible blunder. I Believe that you should use the regular Komodo for Tomorrow, and that will create more tension to the GM knowing that he will be playing with a totally different version of Komodo.

PS: Can they also use the other version of Komodo to analyze besides the commentaries of the Humans ?
Komodo MCTS best chance is to play a Knight for a pawn, whereas the GM will remove one of his pawn and the engine his knight. Probably in 6 months Komodo NN might beat the same GM with a Knight Odd. You can probably raise the price to $150 for a Win and $50 for a Draw, if the GM accept to play the rest of the games tomorrow with a Knight for a pawn.
Komodo (both versions) already scored 2.5 out of 3 giving knight for pawn (details differed) to MVL and Naka, perhaps the two best rapid players in the world after MC. For a future match, GM Alex Lenderman suggested knight for tempo; White plays his move, Black uses his first move to "capture" the knight (remove it), and White gets a second move, presumably 1.e4 and 2.d4, then it's Black's turn. Philidor used to give this handicap. I think it is suitable for a midrange GM in rapid. It just needs a good name!

I still do not get it, can somebody please illustrate with a GUI with the first few moves until the Knight is removed from the board :?:
For example :

Do you mean something like this 1. e4 1.d5 2.Nc3 2.d4 3.Nge2 allowing Black to capture the knight on c3, But this will give White a tempo with a Knight being develop whereas Black simply gets the knight for the pawn.
No, I just mean that White plays a move, let's say 1.e4 and removes one of his knights, but the removal of the knight counts as Black's first move, as if he had "captured" it. You can just say that White starts with two moves instead of one but plays without a knight; the justification is that normally you have to spend a move to capture a piece. But after analyzing it a bit, I think it would still be a pretty easy win for a strong GM, just a bit harder than normal knight odds.
Komodo rules!

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MikeB
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Re: Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

Post by MikeB » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:46 am

lkaufman wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:26 am

... It just needs a good name!
Knight Templus (latin for tempo)
Image

jp
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Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:54 am

Re: Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

Post by jp » Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:26 am

lkaufman wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:52 am
jp wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:01 am
Game 3: after 6 moves, already -5.00. Komodo needs a better opening book.
Miro says the opening went extremely well for Smerdon.
...
After 15 moves, Black should win easily.
I think that the -5 is a Stockfish eval, which is about like -3.65 or so for Komodo. Slightly worse than the initial position, but not way worse. Once it plays e4, it's hard to give advice when missing the b1 knight, since the exchange on d5 is too simple (despite the win in the first game), and the e5 advance is also not good. Maybe we just can't let it play e4 early when missing b1 knight.
Miro's conclusion was that N odds is just too much. Miro and Toth were quite critical of Komodo's opening choices. They are predicting a fairly boring day tomorrow. Thankfully, Smerdon blundered a piece (as predicted!) in the first game, which added some sporting interest.

The way it's going, Smerdon will be able to play a French Defence every game, swap off the queens and easily convert the endgame. Somehow, Komodo at least needs to stop him playing that every game.

I think at the least, without changing the material odds, the match should have been Chess960 with one N randomly removed, where the human might give the engine some chances in the opening and will have to think about what opening he wants to play.

Chessqueen
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Full name: Nancy M Pichardo

Re: Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

Post by Chessqueen » Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:54 am

jp wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:26 am
lkaufman wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:52 am
jp wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:01 am
Game 3: after 6 moves, already -5.00. Komodo needs a better opening book.
Miro says the opening went extremely well for Smerdon.
...
After 15 moves, Black should win easily.
I think that the -5 is a Stockfish eval, which is about like -3.65 or so for Komodo. Slightly worse than the initial position, but not way worse. Once it plays e4, it's hard to give advice when missing the b1 knight, since the exchange on d5 is too simple (despite the win in the first game), and the e5 advance is also not good. Maybe we just can't let it play e4 early when missing b1 knight.
Miro's conclusion was that N odds is just too much. Miro and Toth were quite critical of Komodo's opening choices. They are predicting a fairly boring day tomorrow. Thankfully, Smerdon blundered a piece (as predicted!) in the first game, which added some sporting interest.

The way it's going, Smerdon will be able to play a French Defence every game, swap off the queens and easily convert the endgame. Somehow, Komodo at least needs to stop him playing that every game.

I think at the least, without changing the material odds, the match should have been Chess960 with one N randomly removed, where the human might give the engine some chances in the opening and will have to think about what opening he wants to play.
Not if Komodo is instructed to play d4 for the next games today; Or to switch to remove the Knight on g and let it play e4. I recommend to have another match very soon against an IM rated only close to 2400 and the score might be closer next time :shock:

jp
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Re: Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

Post by jp » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:12 pm

Chessqueen wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:54 am
Not if Komodo is instructed to play d4 for the next games today; Or to switch to remove the Knight on g and let it play e4. I recommend to have another match very soon against an IM rated only close to 2400 and the score might be closer next time :shock:
The g1 N is removed for half of the games, the b1 N for the other half. It does not make a difference.

If Komodo plays d4, we'll see 3 Nimzos. Whatever Komodo plays, Smerdon has prepared an opening. Only in Chess960 will he have to think about what to play.

Alayan
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Re: Komodo vs GM Smerdon knight odds match

Post by Alayan » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:17 pm

Chess960 knight odds would be very nice actually.

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