Rebel wrote: ↑Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:19 am
mclane wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:22 pm
I mean that creates
a plan and develops a main line that leads to something.
What you need to consider first is the question:
WHY, do humans need a plan?
Answer, because their inability to flawlessly look ahead for 100 moves. If humans were able they would need no plan, not even chess knowledge and they would play for 99.99999% the best move.
mclane wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:22 pm
Not the usual engines we have today. That play chess within a Horizont of search depth.
Because chess essentially is a search game.
And now I have spoiled your thread
I don’t think so Ed.
I do think of we would have algorithms that create planning, this would also help the normal tree search based chess engines.
Because any chess programs comes in the situation that the tree search comes to an end.
Maybe we have to create or found a new subgroup.
Where Engines exist that do no tree search but only analysing of the position and creating a main line that was not founded the usual way.
Some say that the humans have to play this way because they lack hardware power in the brain.
So the programmers like to stay in the old paradigms. And continue stupid programs as they did in the last 50 years.
Ok. I can live with this.
But it is not what I am interested in.
I am interested in the idea to solve the problem without this huge search tree.
I am NOT interested to see what a chess engine CAN DO if it computes millions of positions. That is boring.
I want to see if it can analyse the position and come with a senseful idea or plan because it knows about chess.
We had human beings on the moon. But no chess engine that can play chess.
Ok we have Stockfish or komodo or others who play chess by going deep in the search tree. But when my blind grandma who can only play
Bingo gets hundred keys and tries them out, one of them will maybe open the door of the garage. That’s not understanding chess,
That’s using hardware progress to open the door.
The results of AI in computerchess are minimal.
The progress is minimal.
One could summarise it that chess engines have no idea what chess is and what the goal of chess is.
But they know how to reach 40 plies in 3 seconds.
Look I searched for this goal a long long time,
When you appeared in cologne Ed together with Jan and the hair dryer on stage , I was there.
I was there when thomas nitsche held his speech about computerchess progress in intelligent search strategy in 1986 .
Ossi and richard had a very weak mephisto cologne.
Levy tried with a motorola 68K Hardware in cologne. I think even mike johnson was there in cologne with motorola 68K Hardware at that Time.
At this time I still had hope and thought: yes there will be one day we will have intelligent chess engines.
But today I am watching the “progress” and I get the feeling that the development ends.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....