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Thomas Lagershausen wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:17 am The moves are shown by stockfish are not convincing.

For example 24.Rxb6?

So i have two questions:

A) What is the defence of the machine against 24.g4 !? with the plan of Ng3 and pawn f5?

For (A), Black simply plays 24...f5.

+1.26 24... f5 25. Rfb1 fxg4 26. Ng3 Rf8 27. Qd1 Rf7 28. Qxg4 Nf8 29. Qd1 Rxb4 30. Rxb4 Nc6 31. Rb1 Qa6 32. Kh2 Nd8 33. Rb5 Nd7 34. f5 Nf8 35. Kg2 Qc8 36. fxe6 Qxe6 37. a5 Nc6 38. Bc1 Nd8 39. Rb2 Qd7 40. Be3 Nc6 41. a6 Nd8 42. Rb8 Qc6 43. Qb1 Nd7 44. Nf5 Nxb8 45. Nd6+ Ke7 46. Nxf7 Nxf7 47. Qb4+ Kd7 48. Qxb8 Qxa6 49. Qa8 Qc6 (depth 40, 0:02:32)

Thomas Lagershausen wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:17 am The moves are shown by stockfish are not convincing.

For example 24.Rxb6?

So i have two questions:

A) What is the defence of the machine against 24.g4 !? with the plan of Ng3 and pawn f5?

B) How improves the machine the black play after MVL's 24.Rfb1?

For (B), it seems that 26...Kf7 is weak.

zullil wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:37 am

Thomas Lagershausen wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:17 am The moves are shown by stockfish are not convincing.

For example 24.Rxb6?

So i have two questions:

A) What is the defence of the machine against 24.g4 !? with the plan of Ng3 and pawn f5?

B) How improves the machine the black play after MVL's 24.Rfb1?

For (B), it seems that 26...Kf7 is weak.

Looks like 26...g6 is the best option for Black, though still losing, of course:

+2.14 26... g6 27. Ng3 gxh5 28. Nxh5 Rg8 29. Ba3 Nc8 30. Bc5 Rxb5 31. axb5 Qb7 32. g3 Kf7 33. Kg2 Kg6 34. Qe2 Kf7 35. Qd1 Qc7 36. Bb4 Qb7 37. Qa4 Ncb6 38. Qa5 Nc8 39. Kf2 Qb6 40. Qa4 Qb7 41. Kf3 Qc7 42. Ra1 Qb6 43. Rg1 Rg6 44. Rb1 Rg4 45. Rh1 Rg8 46. Kf2 Qc7 47. Ba3 Rg6 48. Kg2 Rg8 49. Qb4 Qd8 50. Kf2 Rg4 51. Kf3 Rg6 52. Qa4 Rg8 53. Bc5 Qc7 54. Qb4 Re8 55. Kf2 Rg8 56. Ra1 Rg4 57. Rb1 Qb7 58. Rh1 a6 (depth 51, 0:59:10)

+3.04 26... Rf8 27. Ba3 Rxb5 28. Rxb5 Rf7 29. Bxe7 Kxe7 30. Qa2 Qc6 31. Qa3+ Kd8 32. Kf2 Kc8 33. Ng1 Qc7 34. Nf3 Nb8 35. Qb2 Na6 36. Nh4 Qc6 37. Qa3 Qd7 38. Ng6 Qd8 39. Qb2 Qc7 40. Kf3 Qd8 41. Ke3 Rc7 42. Kf2 Qe8 43. Kf3 Rf7 44. Qa3 Rb7 45. Rxb7 Kxb7 46. g4 Qc6 47. gxf5 exf5 48. Qe7+ Nc7 49. Qb4+ Qb6 50. Qxb6+ Kxb6 51. Ne7 Ka5 52. Nxf5 Kxa4 53. Nxg7 Kb3 54. f5 Kxc3 55. Ne6 Kb3 56. Nxc7 c3 57. Ke3 c2 (depth 51, 0:59:10)

+3.25 26... Rg8 27. Ba3 (depth 51, 0:59:10)

+3.25 26... Rxb5 27. Rxb5 Rf8 28. Ba3 Rf7 29. Bxe7 Kxe7 30. Qa2 Kf8 31. Qa3+ Kg8 32. Kf2 Kh7 33. Rb1 g6 34. hxg6+ Kxg6 35. a5 Kh7 36. Ng3 Qc6 37. Rh1 Qb7 38. Rh3 Qb8 39. Qa1 Qf8 40. Qd1 Qg7 41. Qa4 Qf8 42. Nh5 Qb8 43. Qc6 Re7 44. Kg1 Kg6 45. Kh2 Qe8 46. Qd6 Rf7 47. Kg1 Qe7 48. Qc6 Qe8 49. Qa4 Kh7 50. Qb5 Kg8 51. Qc6 Re7 52. Qa6 Kh8 53. Nf6 Nxf6 54. exf6 Rh7 (depth 50, 0:59:10)

zullil wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:37 am

Thomas Lagershausen wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:17 am The moves are shown by stockfish are not convincing.

For example 24.Rxb6?

So i have two questions:

A) What is the defence of the machine against 24.g4 !? with the plan of Ng3 and pawn f5?

B) How improves the machine the black play after MVL's 24.Rfb1?

For (B), it seems that 26...Kf7 is weak.

Lc0 (384x30-swa-320000.pb) agrees with Stockfish that 26...g6 is clearly "better" than the alternatives:

Nodes: 100M, N/s: 19.6k, Time: 1h 25m (limit met)

22.2% g6 Ba3 Rxb5 Rxb5 gxh5 Ng3 h4 Nh5 Rg8 Qb1 Qxa4 Bxe7 Kxe7 Rb7 Rg6 Nf6 Rxf6 exf6+ Kxf6 Qe1 Ke7 Qxh4+ Kd6 Qxh6 Qa6 Rb1 Qa3 Re1 Qxc3 Qxe6+ Kc7 Rd1 Qb2 Kh2 Nb6 Qxf5 c3 Qe5+ Kb7 Qe1 c2 Rc1 Nc4 f5 a5 g3 Qb3 Qe2 Ne3 f6 Qa3 Rxc2 Nxc2 Qe7+ Kc6 Qxa3 Nxa3 f7 Kb5 f8=Q Nc2 Qc5+ (N: 98.4M, WDL: 123 199 678, P: 6.71%)

15.1% Kf7 Rxb6 Nxb6 Ba3 Nbc8 g4 fxg4 Ng3 Rf8 Qd1 Kg8 Qxg4 Kh8 Bc5 Rg8 Rf1 g6 Kh1 gxh5 Qxh5 Rxg3 Qxh6+ Kg8 f5 Qxa4 Qxe6+ Kh7 Qf7+ Rg7 Qh5+ Kg8 f6 Rh7 f7+ Rxf7 Qxf7+ Kh8 Bxe7 Nxe7 Qh5+ (N: 804k, WDL: 76 151 773, P: 38.28%)

15.2% Rxb5 axb5 Qa5 Qb2 Kf7 Ra1 Qc7 Qb4 Nc8 Ba3 Qd8 g3 g6 hxg6+ Kxg6 Kf2 h5 Ng1 h4 Nf3 hxg3+ Kxg3 Kf7 Ng5+ Kg8 Rg1 Qe8 (N: 366k, WDL: 78 147 775, P: 17.11%)

cur-dev-Honey

after 1.5 trillion nodes ( 28 minutes+)
info depth 46 seldepth 81 multipv 1 score cp 219 nodes 155092871143 nps 91230510 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 1700011 pv b4b6 d7b6 f1a1 e8d7 d2c1 b6a8 c1a3 a5d8 a1b1 a8c7 a3d6 c6a5 c2b2 d8c8 b2a3 h8g8 g2g3 a5c6 e2f4 c6a5 g1g2 c8d8 f4e2 d8c8 d6e7 c8a8 e2c1 a5c6 a3d6 d7c8 e7f8 c6d8 d6c5 d8b7 c5a3 b7d8 c1e2 a8c6 f8c5 c6a6 e2f4 c7e8 g3g4 d8c6 c5f8 e8c7 b1b2 c6d8 f4e2 d8c6 f8d6 c8d7 d6c7 d7c7 b2b1
info depth 46 seldepth 67 multipv 2 score cp 189 nodes 155092871143 nps 91230510 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 1700011 pv f1b1 b6a6 b1a1 c6b4 c3b4 a5d8 b4b5 a6b6 d2a5 h8f8 c2b1 f7f5 a5b6 d7b6 a4a5 b6c8 b1b4 e8f7 a1b1 d8e7 b4c5 f8d8 g2g3 e7b7 g1g2 d8e8 e2f4 c8e7 g2f3 g7g5 h5g6 e7g6 a5a6 b7b6 c5b6 a7b6 f4e2 h6h5 b1h1 e8h8 e2c3 g6e7 h1h4 e7g6 h4h3 g6e7 f3e3 e7c8 e3d2 f7e7 f2f3 e7f7 d2e3 c8a7 h3h4 h8h6 h4h1 f7g6 e3d2 g6f7 d2c2 h6h8
info depth 46 seldepth 75 multipv 3 score cp 152 nodes 155092871143 nps 91230510 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 1700011 pv b4b1 c6e7 b1b6 a7b6 d2c1 d7b8 c1a3 b8c6 f2f4 a5a7 g2g4 f7f5 e2g3 h8f8 g4f5 e7f5 a3f8 f5g3 c2g6 e8f8 g6g3 c6e7 f1a1 a7a5 g3e3 e7f5 e3e1 f8f7 g1h2 f7g8 e1c1 g8h8 c1b2 h8h7 a1a2 h7h8 b2b4 a5a8 b4b1 a8d8 b1e1 d8e7 e1f2 h8g8 h2g1 e7d8 f2h2 d8a8 h2e2 g8h8 g1h2 a8a5 e2b2 a5a7 b2g2 a7a5 a2b2 a5c3 b2b6 g7g5 b6b8 h8h7 b8b7 h7h8 f4g5 c3d4
info depth 46 seldepth 91 multipv 4 score cp 152 nodes 155092871143 nps 91230510 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 1700011 pv f2f4 c6e7 b4b6 d7b6 f1a1 f7f5 e5f6 g7f6 f4f5 e6e5 c2b1 b6d7 d4e5 f6e5 f5f6 a5c5 g1h1 d7f6 b1b8 c5c8 b8e5 h8f8 e2f4 e8f7 a1f1 c8f5 e5c7 f6h5 h1h2 h5f6 h2g1 f8g8 c7a7 f5d7 a7d7 f6d7 f4d5 f7e6 d5c7 e6d6 c7b5 d6c6 f1e1 e7f5 e1e6 c6b7 d2f4 g8a8 g2g4 a8g8 a4a5 g8g4 g1h1 d7c5 e6b6 b7c8 a5a6 c5a6 f4h2 h6h5 b6a6 c8d7 h2b8 g4e4 h1g2 e4e6 a6e6 d7e6 g2f3 e6d5 f3f4 d5c5 f4f5 c5b5 b8f4 b5a4 f5e4 a4b3 e4d4

I believe it may be possible that after 100, 200 or more trillion nodes, f2f4 may be best...key word 'may' ....

MikeB wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:06 pm cur-dev-Honey

after 1.5 trillion nodes ( 28 minutes+)
info depth 46 seldepth 81 multipv 1 score cp 219 nodes 155092871143 nps 91230510 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 1700011 pv b4b6 d7b6 f1a1 e8d7 d2c1 b6a8 c1a3 a5d8 a1b1 a8c7 a3d6 c6a5 c2b2 d8c8 b2a3 h8g8 g2g3 a5c6 e2f4 c6a5 g1g2 c8d8 f4e2 d8c8 d6e7 c8a8 e2c1 a5c6 a3d6 d7c8 e7f8 c6d8 d6c5 d8b7 c5a3 b7d8 c1e2 a8c6 f8c5 c6a6 e2f4 c7e8 g3g4 d8c6 c5f8 e8c7 b1b2 c6d8 f4e2 d8c6 f8d6 c8d7 d6c7 d7c7 b2b1
info depth 46 seldepth 67 multipv 2 score cp 189 nodes 155092871143 nps 91230510 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 1700011 pv f1b1 b6a6 b1a1 c6b4 c3b4 a5d8 b4b5 a6b6 d2a5 h8f8 c2b1 f7f5 a5b6 d7b6 a4a5 b6c8 b1b4 e8f7 a1b1 d8e7 b4c5 f8d8 g2g3 e7b7 g1g2 d8e8 e2f4 c8e7 g2f3 g7g5 h5g6 e7g6 a5a6 b7b6 c5b6 a7b6 f4e2 h6h5 b1h1 e8h8 e2c3 g6e7 h1h4 e7g6 h4h3 g6e7 f3e3 e7c8 e3d2 f7e7 f2f3 e7f7 d2e3 c8a7 h3h4 h8h6 h4h1 f7g6 e3d2 g6f7 d2c2 h6h8
info depth 46 seldepth 75 multipv 3 score cp 152 nodes 155092871143 nps 91230510 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 1700011 pv b4b1 c6e7 b1b6 a7b6 d2c1 d7b8 c1a3 b8c6 f2f4 a5a7 g2g4 f7f5 e2g3 h8f8 g4f5 e7f5 a3f8 f5g3 c2g6 e8f8 g6g3 c6e7 f1a1 a7a5 g3e3 e7f5 e3e1 f8f7 g1h2 f7g8 e1c1 g8h8 c1b2 h8h7 a1a2 h7h8 b2b4 a5a8 b4b1 a8d8 b1e1 d8e7 e1f2 h8g8 h2g1 e7d8 f2h2 d8a8 h2e2 g8h8 g1h2 a8a5 e2b2 a5a7 b2g2 a7a5 a2b2 a5c3 b2b6 g7g5 b6b8 h8h7 b8b7 h7h8 f4g5 c3d4
info depth 46 seldepth 91 multipv 4 score cp 152 nodes 155092871143 nps 91230510 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 1700011 pv f2f4 c6e7 b4b6 d7b6 f1a1 f7f5 e5f6 g7f6 f4f5 e6e5 c2b1 b6d7 d4e5 f6e5 f5f6 a5c5 g1h1 d7f6 b1b8 c5c8 b8e5 h8f8 e2f4 e8f7 a1f1 c8f5 e5c7 f6h5 h1h2 h5f6 h2g1 f8g8 c7a7 f5d7 a7d7 f6d7 f4d5 f7e6 d5c7 e6d6 c7b5 d6c6 f1e1 e7f5 e1e6 c6b7 d2f4 g8a8 g2g4 a8g8 a4a5 g8g4 g1h1 d7c5 e6b6 b7c8 a5a6 c5a6 f4h2 h6h5 b6a6 c8d7 h2b8 g4e4 h1g2 e4e6 a6e6 d7e6 g2f3 e6d5 f3f4 d5c5 f4f5 c5b5 b8f4 b5a4 f5e4 a4b3 e4d4

I believe it may be possible that after 100, 200 or more trillion nodes, f2f4 may be best...key word 'may' ....

155 billion, not 1.5 trillion, counted an extra digit erroneously.

I kept it running, I believe now it is less likely f2f4 is best with big jump in Rxb6 score, 472 billon modes searched

info depth 49 seldepth 92 multipv 1 score cp 243 nodes 417242202148 nps 90909214 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 4589658 pv b4b6 d7b6 f1a1 b6c8 d2c1 e8d7 a1b1 c8b6 f2f4 h8b8 g1f2 b6a4 b1a1 b8b3 c2a2 a5d8 a2a4 d8h4 f2e3 h4h5 a1a3 b3b6 a3a2 h5h4 a4a3 h4d8 a3d6 d7c8 d6d8 c8d8 c1a3 b6b5 a3f8 g7g6 f8h6 d8e8 a2a6 b5b6 a6b6 a7b6 e2c1 e8e7 h6g5 e7d7 g5h4 c6a7 e3f3 a7c6 c1e2 d7e8 h4f2 c6e7 f2g3 e7c6 g3h4
info depth 49 seldepth 80 multipv 2 score cp 211 nodes 417242202148 nps 90909214 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 4589658 pv f1b1 b6a6 b1a1 a5d8 b4b5 c6a5 f2f4 a5b3 a1f1 d8h4 f4f5 h4e4 c2e4 d5e4 f5e6 f7e6 d2e3 a6b6 e2f4 h8g8 d4d5 b6b5 a4b5 e6d5 f4d5 d7c5 e5e6 c5e6 e3a7 e6c5 f1f4 e8d7 f4g4 d7e6 d5e3 g7g6 g4g6 g8g6 h5g6 e6f6 e3c4 f6g6 g1f2 g6f5 a7c5 b3c5 f2e3 f5e6 e3d4 c5b3 d4e4 b3c5 e4e3 c5b3 e3f4 b3c5 c4e3 e6d7 f4e5 h6h5
info depth 49 seldepth 86 multipv 3 score cp 177 nodes 417242202148 nps 90909214 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 4589658 pv b4b1 b6a6 b1a1 a5d8 d2c1 c6a5 a1b1 a5b3 c1a3 d8g5 b1b3 c4b3 c2b3 a6b6 b3a2 b6c6 a4a5 g5d8 a3b4 f7f5 e5f6 d8f6 a2a4 c6c4 a5a6 h8f8 e2c1 e6e5 c1d3 f6c6 a4c6 c4c6 b4f8 d7f8 f1e1 e5e4 d3b4 c6c3 b4d5 c3a3 e1e4 e8d8 d5b4 a3a4 d4d5 d8d7 e4c4 g7g6 c4f4 g6h5 f4f8 a4b4 f8f7 d7d6 f7a7 b4a4 a7h7 d6d5 h7h6 h5h4 g1h2 a4a2 f2f3 d5e5 h6c6 e5d5 c6g6 d5c4 h2h3 c4b5
info depth 49 seldepth 93 multipv 4 score cp 166 nodes 417242202148 nps 90909214 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 4589658 pv f2f4 c6e7 b4b6 d7b6 f1a1 h8g8 d2c1 g7g6 g1f2 g6h5 c2h7 b6d7 h7h6 a5b6 c1a3 b6b3 h6h5 b3c2 a1c1 c2d3 c1h1 d7f8 a3e7 e8e7 h5f3 d3f5 a4a5 f8h7 h1h6 g8g7 g2g3 e7e8 f3h5 f5h5 h6h5 f7f5 g3g4 f5g4 f2g3 h7f8 h5g5 g7b7 f4f5 e6f5 g5f5 f8e6 f5f6 e6g5 f6a6 b7f7 g3h4 g5e4 h4g4 f7g7 g4f5 g7f7 f5g6 f7d7 e5e6

MikeB wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:56 pm

MikeB wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:06 pm cur-dev-Honey

after 1.5 trillion nodes ( 28 minutes+)
info depth 46 seldepth 81 multipv 1 score cp 219 nodes 155092871143 nps 91230510 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 1700011 pv b4b6 d7b6 f1a1 e8d7 d2c1 b6a8 c1a3 a5d8 a1b1 a8c7 a3d6 c6a5 c2b2 d8c8 b2a3 h8g8 g2g3 a5c6 e2f4 c6a5 g1g2 c8d8 f4e2 d8c8 d6e7 c8a8 e2c1 a5c6 a3d6 d7c8 e7f8 c6d8 d6c5 d8b7 c5a3 b7d8 c1e2 a8c6 f8c5 c6a6 e2f4 c7e8 g3g4 d8c6 c5f8 e8c7 b1b2 c6d8 f4e2 d8c6 f8d6 c8d7 d6c7 d7c7 b2b1
info depth 46 seldepth 67 multipv 2 score cp 189 nodes 155092871143 nps 91230510 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 1700011 pv f1b1 b6a6 b1a1 c6b4 c3b4 a5d8 b4b5 a6b6 d2a5 h8f8 c2b1 f7f5 a5b6 d7b6 a4a5 b6c8 b1b4 e8f7 a1b1 d8e7 b4c5 f8d8 g2g3 e7b7 g1g2 d8e8 e2f4 c8e7 g2f3 g7g5 h5g6 e7g6 a5a6 b7b6 c5b6 a7b6 f4e2 h6h5 b1h1 e8h8 e2c3 g6e7 h1h4 e7g6 h4h3 g6e7 f3e3 e7c8 e3d2 f7e7 f2f3 e7f7 d2e3 c8a7 h3h4 h8h6 h4h1 f7g6 e3d2 g6f7 d2c2 h6h8
info depth 46 seldepth 75 multipv 3 score cp 152 nodes 155092871143 nps 91230510 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 1700011 pv b4b1 c6e7 b1b6 a7b6 d2c1 d7b8 c1a3 b8c6 f2f4 a5a7 g2g4 f7f5 e2g3 h8f8 g4f5 e7f5 a3f8 f5g3 c2g6 e8f8 g6g3 c6e7 f1a1 a7a5 g3e3 e7f5 e3e1 f8f7 g1h2 f7g8 e1c1 g8h8 c1b2 h8h7 a1a2 h7h8 b2b4 a5a8 b4b1 a8d8 b1e1 d8e7 e1f2 h8g8 h2g1 e7d8 f2h2 d8a8 h2e2 g8h8 g1h2 a8a5 e2b2 a5a7 b2g2 a7a5 a2b2 a5c3 b2b6 g7g5 b6b8 h8h7 b8b7 h7h8 f4g5 c3d4
info depth 46 seldepth 91 multipv 4 score cp 152 nodes 155092871143 nps 91230510 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 1700011 pv f2f4 c6e7 b4b6 d7b6 f1a1 f7f5 e5f6 g7f6 f4f5 e6e5 c2b1 b6d7 d4e5 f6e5 f5f6 a5c5 g1h1 d7f6 b1b8 c5c8 b8e5 h8f8 e2f4 e8f7 a1f1 c8f5 e5c7 f6h5 h1h2 h5f6 h2g1 f8g8 c7a7 f5d7 a7d7 f6d7 f4d5 f7e6 d5c7 e6d6 c7b5 d6c6 f1e1 e7f5 e1e6 c6b7 d2f4 g8a8 g2g4 a8g8 a4a5 g8g4 g1h1 d7c5 e6b6 b7c8 a5a6 c5a6 f4h2 h6h5 b6a6 c8d7 h2b8 g4e4 h1g2 e4e6 a6e6 d7e6 g2f3 e6d5 f3f4 d5c5 f4f5 c5b5 b8f4 b5a4 f5e4 a4b3 e4d4

I believe it may be possible that after 100, 200 or more trillion nodes, f2f4 may be best...key word 'may' ....

155 billion, not 1.5 trillion, counted an extra digit erroneously.

I kept it running, I believe now it is less likely f2f4 is best with big jump in Rxb6 score, 472 billon modes searched

info depth 49 seldepth 92 multipv 1 score cp 243 nodes 417242202148 nps 90909214 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 4589658 pv b4b6 d7b6 f1a1 b6c8 d2c1 e8d7 a1b1 c8b6 f2f4 h8b8 g1f2 b6a4 b1a1 b8b3 c2a2 a5d8 a2a4 d8h4 f2e3 h4h5 a1a3 b3b6 a3a2 h5h4 a4a3 h4d8 a3d6 d7c8 d6d8 c8d8 c1a3 b6b5 a3f8 g7g6 f8h6 d8e8 a2a6 b5b6 a6b6 a7b6 e2c1 e8e7 h6g5 e7d7 g5h4 c6a7 e3f3 a7c6 c1e2 d7e8 h4f2 c6e7 f2g3 e7c6 g3h4
info depth 49 seldepth 80 multipv 2 score cp 211 nodes 417242202148 nps 90909214 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 4589658 pv f1b1 b6a6 b1a1 a5d8 b4b5 c6a5 f2f4 a5b3 a1f1 d8h4 f4f5 h4e4 c2e4 d5e4 f5e6 f7e6 d2e3 a6b6 e2f4 h8g8 d4d5 b6b5 a4b5 e6d5 f4d5 d7c5 e5e6 c5e6 e3a7 e6c5 f1f4 e8d7 f4g4 d7e6 d5e3 g7g6 g4g6 g8g6 h5g6 e6f6 e3c4 f6g6 g1f2 g6f5 a7c5 b3c5 f2e3 f5e6 e3d4 c5b3 d4e4 b3c5 e4e3 c5b3 e3f4 b3c5 c4e3 e6d7 f4e5 h6h5
info depth 49 seldepth 86 multipv 3 score cp 177 nodes 417242202148 nps 90909214 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 4589658 pv b4b1 b6a6 b1a1 a5d8 d2c1 c6a5 a1b1 a5b3 c1a3 d8g5 b1b3 c4b3 c2b3 a6b6 b3a2 b6c6 a4a5 g5d8 a3b4 f7f5 e5f6 d8f6 a2a4 c6c4 a5a6 h8f8 e2c1 e6e5 c1d3 f6c6 a4c6 c4c6 b4f8 d7f8 f1e1 e5e4 d3b4 c6c3 b4d5 c3a3 e1e4 e8d8 d5b4 a3a4 d4d5 d8d7 e4c4 g7g6 c4f4 g6h5 f4f8 a4b4 f8f7 d7d6 f7a7 b4a4 a7h7 d6d5 h7h6 h5h4 g1h2 a4a2 f2f3 d5e5 h6c6 e5d5 c6g6 d5c4 h2h3 c4b5
info depth 49 seldepth 93 multipv 4 score cp 166 nodes 417242202148 nps 90909214 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 4589658 pv f2f4 c6e7 b4b6 d7b6 f1a1 h8g8 d2c1 g7g6 g1f2 g6h5 c2h7 b6d7 h7h6 a5b6 c1a3 b6b3 h6h5 b3c2 a1c1 c2d3 c1h1 d7f8 a3e7 e8e7 h5f3 d3f5 a4a5 f8h7 h1h6 g8g7 g2g3 e7e8 f3h5 f5h5 h6h5 f7f5 g3g4 f5g4 f2g3 h7f8 h5g5 g7b7 f4f5 e6f5 g5f5 f8e6 f5f6 e6g5 f6a6 b7f7 g3h4 g5e4 h4g4 f7g7 g4f5 g7f7 f5g6 f7d7 e5e6

Here's Lc0 (384x30-swa-320000.pb) with 100M nodes:

0328 13:53:37.178443 139660286433024 ../../src/chess/uciloop.cc:219] << info string f2f4 (351 ) N: 107976 (+ 0) (P: 4.44%) (WL: 0.61978) (D: 0.179) (Q: 0.61978) (U: 0.10841) (Q+U: 0.72819) (V: -.----)

0328 13:53:37.178452 139660286433024 ../../src/chess/uciloop.cc:219] << info string f1b1 (123 ) N: 195377 (+ 0) (P: 2.36%) (WL: 0.67298) (D: 0.143) (Q: 0.67298) (U: 0.03187) (Q+U: 0.70485) (V: -.----)

0328 13:53:37.178462 139660286433024 ../../src/chess/uciloop.cc:219] << info string b4b1 (677 ) N: 9931135 (+ 0) (P: 16.15%) (WL: 0.68975) (D: 0.149) (Q: 0.68975) (U: 0.00429) (Q+U: 0.69403) (V: -.----)

0328 13:53:37.178473 139660286433024 ../../src/chess/uciloop.cc:219] << info string b4b6 (699 ) N: 89558780 (+270) (P: 40.19%) (WL: 0.68972) (D: 0.126) (Q: 0.68972) (U: 0.00118) (Q+U: 0.69090) (V: -.----)

Note that these are listed from worse to best; this is how Lc0 writes its log file. So f4 is considered to be fourth best.

Here are the associated PVs:

0328 13:53:37.172918 139660286433024 ../../src/mcts/stoppers/stoppers.cc:64] Stopped search: Reached visits limit: 100000266>=100000000

0328 13:53:37.177443 139660286433024 ../../src/chess/uciloop.cc:219] << info depth 22 seldepth 59 time 5915434 nodes 100000266 score cp 204 wdl 782 126 92 nps 16904 tbhits 4 multipv 1 pv b4b6 d7b6 f1a1 e8d7 d2c1 b6c8 a1b1 c8b6 f2f4 d7c8 b1a1 f7f5 g2g4 h8f8 e2g3 f5g4 f4f5 b6a8 c1a3 f8f7 a1b1 a8c7 a3d6 c6d8 d6c7 a5c7 f5e6 d8e6 g3f5 c8d8 f5d6 f7f3 c2g6 f3g3 g1f2 g3f3 f2e1 c7e7 b1b8 d8d7 b8b7 e6c7 g6g4 d7c6 g4f3 e7e5 d4e5 a7a5 b7c7 c6c7 f3d5 g7g5

0328 13:53:37.177483 139660286433024 ../../src/chess/uciloop.cc:219] << info depth 22 seldepth 59 time 5915434 nodes 100000266 score cp 204 wdl 770 150 80 nps 16904 tbhits 4 multipv 2 pv b4b1 c6e7 b1b6 a7b6 g2g4 h8g8 g1g2 d7b8 f2f4 g7g6 e2g3 b8c6 g2h2 b6b5 a4b5 a5b5 f1b1 b5a5 b1b7 e8d8 c2b1 d8c8 b7b2 g6h5 b2a2 a5c7 g3h5 g8g4 h5f6 g4h4 h2g2 c7b7 b1a1 e7f5 a2a8 c8c7 a8f8 b7b3 f8f7 f5e7 f7e7 c6e7

0328 13:53:37.177523 139660286433024 ../../src/chess/uciloop.cc:219] << info depth 22 seldepth 59 time 5915434 nodes 100000266 score cp 199 wdl 765 143 92 nps 16904 tbhits 4 multipv 3 pv f1b1 c6b4 c3b4 a5a6 b4b5 a6c8 d2b4 c8a8 b4c5 b6b7 a4a5 a8b8 c5d6 b8d8 c2a4 f7f5 e2c3 e8f7 b5b6 d8c8 g2g4 h8e8 g4f5 f7g8 f5e6 e8e6 c3d5 d7b6 a5b6 e6d6 e5d6 c8g4 g1f1 g4h3 f1e1 h3h1

0328 13:53:37.177537 139660286433024 ../../src/chess/uciloop.cc:219] << info depth 22 seldepth 59 time 5915434 nodes 100000266 score cp 183 wdl 720 179 101 nps 16904 tbhits 4 multipv 4 pv f2f4 c6e7 b4b6 d7b6 f1a1 h8g8 d2c1 g7g6 g1f2 g6h5 c2h7 b6d7 h7h6 a5b6 c1a3 b6b3 a3e7 b3b2 a1e1 e8e7 f4f5 b2c2 h6h7 c2f5 h7f5 e6f5 e2f4 g8b8 f4d5 e7e6 d5f4 e6e7 e1h1 b8b2

this is a ~1.2 trillion nodes searched

info depth 54 seldepth 77 multipv 1 score cp 261 nodes 1185774568113 nps 90646005 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 13081377 pv b4b6
info depth 53 seldepth 89 multipv 2 score cp 222 nodes 1185774568113 nps 90646005 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 13081377 pv f1b1 b6a6 b1a1 d7f8 b4b1 g7g5 d2c1 a6b6 c1a3 f8d7 f2f4 g5f4 e2f4 b6b3 b1b3 c4b3 c2b3 a5b6 b3b5 h8g8 a1b1 c6e7 g1f2 b6c7 b5b4 e7f5 b4b7 e8d8 f4e2 c7b7 b1b7 a7a6 b7a7 d8c8 a7a8 d7b8 a3c5 g8g5 c5a7 c8b7 a8b8 b7a7 b8f8 g5g7 g2g4 f5h4 f8e8 g7g4 e8e7 a7b6 e7f7 g4g2 f2f1 g2g5 e2f4 g5f5 f7f5 h4f5 f4e6 f5g3 f1g2 g3e4 e6g7 b6c7 g7f5 e4c3 f5h6 c3e2 h6f5 e2f4 g2g3
info depth 53 seldepth 92 multipv 3 score cp 196 nodes 1185774568113 nps 90646005 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 13081377 pv b4b1 c6e7 b1b6 a7b6 d2c1 d7b8 c1a3 b8c6 f2f4 a5a7 c2b2 f7f5 e5f6 g7f6 b2b5 a7d7 a3e7 c6e7 b5b6 e8f7 f4f5 e7f5 a4a5 h8c8 e2f4 d7d6 b6b7 d6c7 b7b1 c8g8 a5a6 c7b8 b1b8 g8b8 f4d5 e6d5 f1f5 b8a8 f5d5 a8a6 d5c5 a6a1 g1h2 a1d1 c5c4 f7e6 c4c5 d1d3 d4d5 e6d6 c5c6 d6d5 c6f6 d3c3 f6h6 d5e5 h6g6 e5f5 g2g4 f5f4 h5h6 c3c2 h2h3
info depth 53 seldepth 103 multipv 4 score cp 173 nodes 1185774568113 nps 90646005 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 13081377 pv f2f4 c6e7 b4b6 d7b6 f1a1 h8g8 d2c1 g7g6 g1f2 g6h5 c2h7 b6d7 h7h6 a5b6 c1a3 b6b3 h6h7 d7f8 h7b1 e7c6 b1c1 h5h4 a1b1 b3a4 a3d6 a4a6 b1b2 f7f5 e5f6 f8d7 d6e5 g8g6 f4f5 e6f5 c1f4 g6f6 e5f6 d7f6 f4f5 c6e7 b2b8 e8f7 f5f3 a6e6 b8a8 a7a6 f2g1 e6b6 e2f4 b6b1 g1h2 b1f5 f4e2 f6g4 h2g1 f5f3 g2f3 g4e3 a8a6 e3d1 g1g2 e7f5 a6c6 f7e7 c6b6 e7f7 b6a6 d1e3 g2h3 e3d1 h3g4
bestmove b4b6 ponder a7b6

zullil wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:36 pm

zullil wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:37 am

Thomas Lagershausen wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:17 am The moves are shown by stockfish are not convincing.

For example 24.Rxb6?

So i have two questions:

A) What is the defence of the machine against 24.g4 !? with the plan of Ng3 and pawn f5?

B) How improves the machine the black play after MVL's 24.Rfb1?

For (B), it seems that 26...Kf7 is weak.

Lc0 (384x30-swa-320000.pb) agrees with Stockfish that 26...g6 is clearly "better" than the alternatives:

Nodes: 100M, N/s: 19.6k, Time: 1h 25m (limit met)

22.2% g6 Ba3 Rxb5 Rxb5 gxh5 Ng3 h4 Nh5 Rg8 Qb1 Qxa4 Bxe7 Kxe7 Rb7 Rg6 Nf6 Rxf6 exf6+ Kxf6 Qe1 Ke7 Qxh4+ Kd6 Qxh6 Qa6 Rb1 Qa3 Re1 Qxc3 Qxe6+ Kc7 Rd1 Qb2 Kh2 Nb6 Qxf5 c3 Qe5+ Kb7 Qe1 c2 Rc1 Nc4 f5 a5 g3 Qb3 Qe2 Ne3 f6 Qa3 Rxc2 Nxc2 Qe7+ Kc6 Qxa3 Nxa3 f7 Kb5 f8=Q Nc2 Qc5+ (N: 98.4M, WDL: 123 199 678, P: 6.71%)

Gentleman, the line of Lc0 is a complete win for white.

Stockfish give +7 for white after 33.Rb7

FEN: 6r1/pR1nk3/4p2p/3pPp1N/q1pP1P1p/2P5/6P1/1Q4K1 b - - 1 33

51/87- 47:06 24.682.541.970 8.733.293 -7,04 Tg8-g6 Sh5-f6

Till now it looks like that 26...g6 is no improvement for the defence against 23.f4 !

Maybe you can impove the defence?

Check the black moves given by Lc0 in the posting of zullil.

If you didn´t find an improvement in this moves it is proven that 23.f4 !! is best.

If multiple moves are winning, the move that you prefer for aesthetic reason doesn't become "the best move". Dismissing other winning moves as worse is incorrect, especially so when engines much stronger than any of us agree on it not being the most efficient/easiest win.