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yanquis1972 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:05 am If beauty is subject to mathematical proof, you must have a very gray existence

jp wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:35 am

yanquis1972 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:05 am If beauty is subject to mathematical proof, you must have a very gray existence

Beauty is just subject to truth. That's all. Untruth is not beautiful.

No one said anything about proof, though without proof it can be difficult to know truth.

Marek Soszynski wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:44 am What? "Untruth is not beautiful"? Art (literature, painting, movies...) is lies — and beauty.

MikeB wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:47 am

BrendanJNorman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:34 am I have been studying and playing chess seriously for 20 years, and in all this time, I have NEVER seen a game like this.

I have been very impressed with Ethereal 12, it is very, very strong and now with a more refined positional style to boot.

But the way Lc0, even on my very weak hardware (laptop with built-in Nividia card) beat it from a position where Ethereal thought it was +4 is the most amazing thing I've EVER seen.

Witness this amazing game.

[pgn][Event "Elites Sharp, Blitz 3min+2sec-1"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2020.04.03"]
[Round "2.7"]
[White "Ethereal 12.00 (PEXT)"]
[Black "Lc0 v0.23.2+git.c8d9095, 58462."]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "A55"]
[Annotator "1.34;1.10"]
[PlyCount "154"]
[EventDate "2020.04.02"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[SourceTitle "Fritz Engine Tournament"]
[Source "Doe"]

{Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8565U CPU @ 1.80GHz 1992 MHz W=19.9 plies; 2,081kN/s;
239,128 TBAs B=9.5 plies; 4kN/s; 609 TBAs} 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 Nbd7 4. e4
e5 5. Nf3 c6 6. Be2 exd4 7. Nxd4 {1.34/16 8} g6 {1.10/7 5 (Ne5)} 8. Bf4 {
1.16/20 22} Nc5 {1.17/10 6} 9. f3 {1.54/21 17} Nh5 {1.25/12 7} 10. Be3 {
1.50/20 6} Bg7 {1.20/12 1} 11. g3 {1.30/19 9 (g4)} a5 {0.97/9 12 (0-0)} 12. Qd2
{1.47/20 11} a4 {1.02/10 2} 13. O-O-O {1.35/22 14} Qe7 {0.99/10 7 (Qa5)} 14. g4
{1.84/20 9} Nf6 {1.05/12 3} 15. Bf4 {1.66/20 7 (Nc2)} Bxg4 {1.55/10 13} 16. Qe3
{1.87/22 7 (Nc2)} O-O {1.45/9 5} 17. fxg4 {1.80/22 6} a3 {1.11/11 4 (Nfxe4)}
18. b3 {2.31/22 15} Nfxe4 {0.97/13 4 (Rfe8)} 19. Bf3 {2.10/22 9 (Nxe4)} Nxc3 {
0.80/14 6} 20. Qxe7 {2.22/23 5} Nxa2+ {1.03/15 3} 21. Kb1 {2.08/23 4 (Kd2)} Nb4
{0.08/11 7} 22. Qe3 {2.00/23 13} a2+ {0.36/11 12 (Ne6)} 23. Kb2 {2.31/24 7} Ne6
{0.18/19 3} 24. Bxd6 {2.26/21 3 (Bh6)} c5 {-0.13/10 5 (a1Q+)} 25. Bxc5 {
2.80/23 12 (Bxb7)} Nxc5 {-0.24/11 6} 26. Kc3 {2.70/22 3} Nba6 {0.17/14 5 (Nc6)}
27. Bd5 {2.65/20 11 (b4)} Nc7 {-0.38/13 6} 28. Kc2 {2.04/21 12} Nxd5 {-0.27/13
4} 29. cxd5 {2.10/21 7} Na6 {-0.38/11 11 (Rfe8)} 30. Kb2 {2.28/19 6} Nc7 {
-0.60/10 4 (Nb4)} 31. Rd2 {2.02/19 8 (Ka1)} Nxd5 {-0.69/9 8 (Rfd8)} 32. Qg3 {
1.06/20 6 (Qe4)} Nb4 {-0.96/9 7 (Rfd8)} 33. Ra1 {1.09/21 2 (Rhd1)} Rad8 {
-0.74/9 6 (Rfd8)} 34. Qc3 {2.32/20 3 (Rxa2)} Nc6 {-1.34/14 5} 35. Rad1 {
1.55/20 4 (Rxa2)} Nxd4 {-0.39/10 10 (Ra8)} 36. Rxd4 {5.00/18 2} Rc8 {-0.28/9 5}
37. Qb4 {5.13/19 1} Ra8 {-0.21/9 2} 38. Ka1 {4.78/19 2} Rfe8 {-0.13/8 9 (Rfd8)}
39. Qc3 {4.84/16 2 (g5)} Rec8 {-0.07/7 9 (h6)} 40. Qd2 {4.44/19 5 (Qb2)} Rd8 {
-0.03/6 7 (Re8)} 41. Qb2 {5.00/19 4 (Qf4)} Rdc8 {0.11/7 5 (Re8)} 42. g5 {
5.51/19 3} Rf8 {0.28/7 5} 43. Rf1 {5.62/18 2 (h4)} Rfe8 {0.17/6 4 (h6)} 44. Qc3
{4.80/18 2 (b4)} Rac8 {0.05/8 5} 45. Qd2 {4.80/20 2} Rc2 {0.24/10 3 (Re2)} 46.
Qf4 {5.60/19 3} Kh8 {0.25/9 4} 47. h4 {5.43/19 2} Rce2 {0.14/9 6} 48. Rfd1 {
5.70/20 2} Kg8 {0.09/8 3} 49. Qd6 {5.80/20 2 (h5)} Be5 {0.02/7 9 (Ra8)} 50. Qd5
{5.82/20 3 (Qc5)} Rc8 {-0.32/8 4 (Rf2)} 51. Qd7 {5.59/19 2 (b4)} Rcc2 {-0.36/9
4 (Ra8)} 52. Rf1 {4.25/19 2 (Qd5)} Rc7 {-0.42/10 3} 53. Qd8+ {1.98/18 2 (Qd5)}
Kg7 {-0.56/8 0} 54. Rfd1 {0.97/20 3 (Qd5)} Rcc2 {-0.71/9 6 (Rc6)} 55. Qd5 {
0.67/22 2} h5 {-0.62/10 3 (Kh8)} 56. gxh6+ {3.52/17 2} Kxh6 {-0.54/10 2} 57.
Rh1 {3.98/19 2 (Qd8)} b6 {-0.77/8 10 (Rb2)} 58. Rhd1 {4.24/19 3 (h5)} b5 {
-0.83/7 3 (Rb2)} 59. Rh1 {4.29/18 2 (h5)} Rc8 {-0.91/7 3} 60. Rhd1 {3.53/17 2
(Rf1)} b4 {-0.83/8 3 (Rcc2)} 61. Rf1 {0.01/23 2 (h5)} Rcc2 {-0.51/8 3 (Rc7)}
62. h5 {0.01/25 3} g5 {-0.51/9 1} 63. Rh1 {0.01/25 2 (Qd8)} Rc3 {-0.82/7 3
(Rc7)} 64. Qd8 {0.00/24 2 (Rf1)} Rf3 {-1.01/7 3 (Kh7)} 65. Rg1 {0.00/21 3
(Rhd1)} g4 {-1.68/7 1 (Kh7)} 66. Qb6+ {-5.19/19 2 (Qf8+)} Kh7 {-1.86/8 2} 67.
Qc5 {-5.73/18 2} g3 {-2.35/8 1} 68. Qxe5 {-6.09/17 2 (Qc4)} Rxe5 {-5.88/8 2}
69. Rg4 {-6.48/18 3} f5 {-6.23/10 3 (Ree3)} 70. R4xg3 {-5.35/17 2} Rxg3 {
-6.69/11 1} 71. Rxg3 {-5.52/19 2} Kh6 {-7.40/10 2} 72. Rg1 {-9.61/18 2 (Rh3)}
Kxh5 {-9.51/7 3 (Ra5)} 73. Rf1 {-10.65/19 3} Rb5 {-10.47/7 2 (Ra5)} 74. Kxa2 {
-5.60/17 2 (Kb2)} Kg4 {-11.40/7 3} 75. Rg1+ {-8.64/18 2 (Kb2)} Kf3 {-12.53/6 3}
76. Rg8 {-10.47/20 2 (Rg5)} f4 {-16.14/6 2} 77. Rf8 {-12.64/18 3 (Rg1)} Kg4 {
-16.18/6 3 (Kg3)} 0-1[/pgn]

To do this to a weak engine is one thing...but to Ethereal?

With a BISHOP vs a queen?

What the hell is going on here? Amazing.

Ethereal may have a bug (edit: nevermind, the game was very fast). Current Honey sees draw in < than second while Ethereal was +5.6. @ move 43.
Entertaining game, no doubt - thx for sharing...
....

Vinvin wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:01 am 64. Qd5-d8? is the losing mistake, equal is : 64.Rf1 Rcc2 65.Rg1 Rc7 66.Rf1 0.00
....

jp wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:47 pm

Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:29 pm I'm with BrendanJNorman.
...
My first rule of a beautiful/amazing game is to play through it with Winboard.
The importance of this step cannot be over-emphasized.
For instance, if you analyze the Immoral game or the Evergreen game, the computer will point out "blunders" like not capturing a piece that was offered. But when you watch the game unfold unaided, it is a thing of beauty. This game is one of those.

The word "blunder" is loaded, so it should probably be avoided.

But a sacrifice should not be called "beautiful" if it turns out to be unsound, so it does matter in the end whether it loses with best play. (It can still be "amazing", because that includes everything, including "amazingly bad".) If best play after a sac leads to a draw, that's passable but still not as "beautiful" as if it wins.

So the unavoidable question is: when the Q is sacrificed, what is the theoretical result of that position?

jp wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:53 am

Marek Soszynski wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:44 am What? "Untruth is not beautiful"? Art (literature, painting, movies...) is lies — and beauty.

What?? You think art is "lies"? No it is not! In what way do you think the painting is lying to you??